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Kyle Hendrickson Men are stupid. That's what the media constantly tells me: http://bit.ly/b0Z7ts

80 weeks ago from Social Media, Personal Development, Blogging Ideas, I am Gen Y and Wordpress Bloggers 3 more

William Bryan, Vinnie Bergl, Bryson Saez and Emily Moore and 1 others recommended this

Emily Moore: My girlfriends and I at my school have really thought about the attack on boys, and how we feel rendered helpless in how to encourage our brothers ...MoreMy girlfriends and I at my school have really thought about the attack on boys, and how we feel rendered helpless in how to encourage our brothers in being the men that the world clearly needs. SO AWESOME that you're addressing this.
80 weeks ago

Shana Ross: Very nice writeup. Now - what to do? Sadly, I think it comes down to money...easy gags and stereotypes trade well. And, paranoid me, I think we ...MoreVery nice writeup. Now - what to do? Sadly, I think it comes down to money...easy gags and stereotypes trade well. And, paranoid me, I think we lose variety, the more vertical integration we see in the networks. Any one have a new paradigm for financing tv programming?
80 weeks ago

Melissa Breau: @Emily - perhaps an article idea for the Project?
80 weeks ago

Emily Moore: @Melissa Excellent idea. I've been brain storming a draft, so I'll get that started..
80 weeks ago

Vinnie Bergl: Great post, Kyle. (I'd comment on the blog, but I see it's been a little contentious! Not sure I'm ready to step into that so early in the day...) ...MoreGreat post, Kyle. (I'd comment on the blog, but I see it's been a little contentious! Not sure I'm ready to step into that so early in the day...) Though it may not be the popular opinion to express at dinner parties, I really do believe that within our lifetime (I was born in '84), we've been exposed to more negative male stereotypes than female stereotypes (though to be fair, one of your examples, Married with Children, was an equal opportunity negative stereotyper).

I would say women who adopt submissive female stereotypes are harmed more from an individual perspective that men who adopt the boorish male stereotypes, but I think they're equally damaging to our culture as a whole.
80 weeks ago

Emily Moore: @Vinnie What do you mean by "submissive female stereotypes"? The model in which men are weak and brooding, and females are dominate and ...More@Vinnie What do you mean by "submissive female stereotypes"? The model in which men are weak and brooding, and females are dominate and over-powering is extremely poisonous for BOTH genders. I think we can agree that both models (weak male/overpowering female and weak female/overpowering male) are both unhealthy extremes, which is why it's even more important to find that strong balance to promote to society.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: Indeed, things were a bit heated, Vinnie until one of the most outspoken of Kate's feminist readers got a chance to offer a point/Counterpoint: MoreIndeed, things were a bit heated, Vinnie until one of the most outspoken of Kate's feminist readers got a chance to offer a point/Counterpoint: http://bit.ly/cN44di where she managed to completely ignore everything I said in favor of posting shock statistics about violence against women.

You'll notice I never once said anything to the effect that "male sexism is more prevalent than female sexism", yet that's how I was treated.

I swear, some people are so bullheaded about advancing their agenda that they steamroll every person who isn't directly aligned with them.

Her response, while I have no doubt riled other women up and got them to play me off as irrelevant without hearing anything I had to say, offerred absolutely nothing as a counterpoint to what I wrote.
80 weeks ago

Shana Ross: @Vinnie - a very interesting point. Without any contention on the point that there are disturbing depictions of men and women on TV, is there a ...More@Vinnie - a very interesting point. Without any contention on the point that there are disturbing depictions of men and women on TV, is there a gendered difference in the way our culture enforces imitation? (submissive women, OK; boorish men more often corrected?)
80 weeks ago

Vinnie Bergl: @Emily: I guess what I meant is that the *traditional* negative female stereotype that people have worked so long to counteract is the submissive ...More@Emily: I guess what I meant is that the *traditional* negative female stereotype that people have worked so long to counteract is the submissive woman who needs her man to lead her way through the world. Your point is exactly right, though: they're all damaging. I just think the two that I named remain the most pervasive.

@Shana: I don't think I know enough to answer that, and probably depends a ton on where you grew up, what profession you're in, etc.
80 weeks ago

Timothy Johnson III: Hi Kyle. Loved your post!
80 weeks ago

William Bryan: I believe with the overall statement that guys are portrayed today as weak and the really angers me, but I think the TV shows is just a little to ...MoreI believe with the overall statement that guys are portrayed today as weak and the really angers me, but I think the TV shows is just a little to far. I mean I watch Family Guy just for laughter not anything else. But I was born in a different timeframe. The 90s so I can't completely agree with everything. But good post man. @ Bryson I will have to watch that charger commerical.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: If any of you think it worthy, I'd love to get more exposure to this by getting some clicks on the "recommend" button.

It's certainly worth ...MoreIf any of you think it worthy, I'd love to get more exposure to this by getting some clicks on the "recommend" button.

It's certainly worth discussing the opposite side as well...how women are portrayed as vapid, unintelligent and shallow in many non-comedy shows. Or shows like Sex and the City, which, while embraced by millions of women, is rife with female stereotypes and insults
80 weeks ago

Erin Lariviere: I read that article, and the comments, and the counterpoint from Judy, and the comments on the counterpoint.

One valid point I think Judy made is ...MoreI read that article, and the comments, and the counterpoint from Judy, and the comments on the counterpoint.

One valid point I think Judy made is that it's a male dominated media (writers, animators, directors, producers...) that is portraying men this way.

I'm not saying that makes it ok. Personally, I think it's wrong. I don't watch much TV, but I can't think of a single strong male role model, and that's definitely a problem - especially when we're talking about young boys watching TV.

But can you call it sexism if it's men portraying men this way? I'm not saying it isn't, I'm legitimately asking the question - is it sexism, or stereotyping? Or both? Can you be sexist against your own sex, or is that something else?
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: I certainly think you can be sexist against your own sex. Or at the very least are certainly capable of saying things or behaving a way that is ...MoreI certainly think you can be sexist against your own sex. Or at the very least are certainly capable of saying things or behaving a way that is sexist against your own sex.

It's called self-deprecation and we do it all the time. In fact, for men it's become exteremely commonplace.

Here's the reason I think the subtle male bashing continues: men don't say anything about it, and women think it's funny, or on some level is an accurate reflection of reality

So, while men may be behind most of hollywood and television, they're still capitalizing on the feminist movement by giving women what they "want" while the men just laugh...until we're sick of it.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: I also think that defining the difference between stereotypes and sexism is a distraction from the point at best. They both come from the same ...MoreI also think that defining the difference between stereotypes and sexism is a distraction from the point at best. They both come from the same root problem: prejudice. So it's really just a matter of semantics to me.

All forms of prejudice are wrong and need to be eliminated if we are ever going to find equality, but in this particular instance, I chose to focus on the denigrated male on TV.

Also, I think that the feminist world has a pretty inaccurate picture of how male-powered hollywood is. There are plenty of female writers, directors and producers out there.

But even if they're NOT female, it doesn't mean that every male is completely unopen to the advancement of feminist ideals. I'm certainly not. Joss Whedon would be a good example.
80 weeks ago

: sexism = power plus prejudice

The fact that telly portrays men as stupid/silly/ineffectual has more to do with media, marketing,and money. than ...Moresexism = power plus prejudice

The fact that telly portrays men as stupid/silly/ineffectual has more to do with media, marketing,and money. than sexism. The powers behind the majority, if not all, of these productions are male. So, though I understand the point you are trying to make I can't see that it is supported by anything but opinion.

The problem is a stereotyping of males that appears to resonate with a certain audience, because it is selling.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: Cooper, your definition of sexism as well as what you wrote is a matter of opinion as well.

Lets go to Merriam-Webster

Main Entry: ...MoreCooper, your definition of sexism as well as what you wrote is a matter of opinion as well.

Lets go to Merriam-Webster

Main Entry: sex·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: 1sex + -ism (as in racism)
Date: 1968

1 : prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2 : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
80 weeks ago

Christina: Wow! Wonderful post, so glad I took the time to read it :). I guess I never really thought too much about it, I certainly see what you are talking ...MoreWow! Wonderful post, so glad I took the time to read it :). I guess I never really thought too much about it, I certainly see what you are talking about though and glad that you are raising awareness about it! Thanks for sharing!
80 weeks ago

: Awh sometimes when the shoe is on the other foot it doesn't feel too good. Do you know how many years woman have been dealing with this, and still ...MoreAwh sometimes when the shoe is on the other foot it doesn't feel too good. Do you know how many years woman have been dealing with this, and still are....You shouldn't believe everything you read, or what people tell you... As a general rule most people have no idea what they are talking about.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: Question Raquel: Do you think I had anything to do with your years of oppression? Do all men deserve to pay for the sins of their forefathers? ...MoreQuestion Raquel: Do you think I had anything to do with your years of oppression? Do all men deserve to pay for the sins of their forefathers? And if so, for how long?

This is really where I take issue with the whole feminist movement. More often than not it doesn't seem to be about equality, but vengeance.

If we're really going to have equality set as our goal, we need to give both sides validity, a clean slate and a chance to start over...and lay aside the snark, cynicism and backbiting commentary that does nothing to benefit either side in a positive way.

80 weeks ago

Kate-Madonna Hindes: This is Kate from GirlmeetsGeek. I'm SO GLAD to see a discussion on this. I was proud to have Kyle guest post. It's an issue we all need to be ...MoreThis is Kate from GirlmeetsGeek. I'm SO GLAD to see a discussion on this. I was proud to have Kyle guest post. It's an issue we all need to be more aware of!
80 weeks ago

Sean Masters: @Kyle something else to add to your latest post might be that feminism is not anti-male but is actually pro-female, and there is an enormous ...More@Kyle something else to add to your latest post might be that feminism is not anti-male but is actually pro-female, and there is an enormous difference between those two lines of thought.
80 weeks ago

Erin Lariviere: @Kyle - Sean's right. Huge difference. Feminism is about equality. Man-hating & vengeance is NOT feminism. THAT is sexism, and while I'm ...More@Kyle - Sean's right. Huge difference. Feminism is about equality. Man-hating & vengeance is NOT feminism. THAT is sexism, and while I'm pretty sure your comment wasn't intended to offend, it is offensive to equate hate with feminism.

That said, you're right about the snark, and as Bryson pointed out, it's really a human condition, or social issue.

For every negative portrayal of men in the media, I'm sure there's at least one of women.

That's not to diminish the stereotyping of men in the media. It exists, and there's something wrong with that.

And it happens to women too. Making it an issue for both.

I think the real question is, why do we, as consumers of media, accept it?
80 weeks ago

: @Kyle - The problem persists. Woman still get paid less, are passed up for positions, and do not get jobs because of their gender. When woman are ...More@Kyle - The problem persists. Woman still get paid less, are passed up for positions, and do not get jobs because of their gender. When woman are tough they are bitches when men are tough they are good leaders... If there was no longer a problem feminism would be dead.
80 weeks ago

Kate-Madonna Hindes: "If there was no problem, feminism would be dead." Brilliant point.
80 weeks ago

: Snark? It's interesting how a valid point is chalked up to snark. You can't start over or have a clean slate if you have no idea what it's like to ...MoreSnark? It's interesting how a valid point is chalked up to snark. You can't start over or have a clean slate if you have no idea what it's like to be discriminated against or devalued.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: @Raquel - I'm on your side. Those are huge issues, and quite frankly, it's bullshit for a woman to get paid less than a man for doing the same ...More@Raquel - I'm on your side. Those are huge issues, and quite frankly, it's bullshit for a woman to get paid less than a man for doing the same job. There is no excuse for it.

What you've brought up are issues that we NEED to be talking about and resolving as a nation, but while pursuing that, let's keep in mind that not all men everywhere have taken an active personal hand in your oppression, nor should they be treated as such.

As long as the goal truly is equality, I'd be happy to support the feminist agenda. Women deserve equal treatment just as everyone else does.

80 weeks ago

Erin Lariviere: @Raquel No one's arguing that sexism against women isn't still a problem. It most certainly is.

If you're angry that it still exists, that ...More@Raquel No one's arguing that sexism against women isn't still a problem. It most certainly is.

If you're angry that it still exists, that women are still discriminated against, and that discrimination and violence against women continues to be sidelined as a major issue in mainstream media - join the club!

It exists. It gets ignored. It's wrong. No one's saying otherwise.

I think I understand your issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you see a discussion about sexism against men and your blood boils - why men? Boo hoo, the oppressor tasted his own medicine and it wasn't nice. About damn time. Who is he to talk about sexism? He doesn't know what REAL sexism is - to have a centuries-long history of it. To have been denied rights because of it. To be denied equality because of it. How could he have any idea? Am I right?

I had the same initial reaction, and I don't think it's wrong. Because really, does that history exist for men? No.

That said, I still think Kyle has a valid point. The media does portray men negatively. The fact that women have experienced that (and worse) for so long, doesn't make it ok.

Simplistic, but I don't think two wrongs make a right here.

I also don't think the article's intention was to diminish discrimination against women in any way, but rather to highlight that, at least to some degree, it's now happening to men as well. And maybe that speaks to a larger social issue.
80 weeks ago

: @Kyle - Why do you keep referring to it as MY oppression.. I'm not oppressed, and I am not on any side. I'm simply making a point. Me personally I ...More@Kyle - Why do you keep referring to it as MY oppression.. I'm not oppressed, and I am not on any side. I'm simply making a point. Me personally I do whatever I want. If I feel that I am being passed over because of my gender I could give two sh%ts.. They obviously don't know who I am or what I am capable of. I've read your posts and personally I don't think you have the desire to see it from both sides. How many stereotypical girl shows are out there, or commercials that portray the girl as a dumb ditsy uneducated pair of walking fun bags? Which do you think outweighs the other? Dumb guy commercials or dumb girl commercials...
80 weeks ago

Emily Moore: @Erin -- The definition of feminism may be "pro-woman" and not "anti-male" but the actions that can be seen from groups who label them as ...More@Erin -- The definition of feminism may be "pro-woman" and not "anti-male" but the actions that can be seen from groups who label them as feminists clearly demonstrate otherwise.

Degrading men (as the media is a MAJOR culprit of) for the sake of spreading "equality" is just trading out one prejudice for another. It is this that I believe Kyle is trying to get in his post, and I agree with him. We need to find a way to uplift both men and women in their own playing field, not at the expense of one another.
80 weeks ago

:
@kyle

My definition is a sociological/academic one.

Certainly we are all entitled to our opinion, but a little research into why those types ...More
@kyle

My definition is a sociological/academic one.

Certainly we are all entitled to our opinion, but a little research into why those types of shows are so heavily programmed you would find it is because the (mostly men), men making the decisions have decided the market is there. Who the market is, I have no idea, but from the little I've been able to gather in the last 10 minutes, the market appears to be heavily male - just as the market for such as "Sex and the City is mostly female.

It's an opinion piece. What any given person gets from it is heavily influenced by their basic ideology, education, and history.

80 weeks ago

Erin Lariviere: @Emily - They can call themselves "feminist" all they want, that doesn't mean they are.

You're right (as is Kyle) - degrading men does not lead ...More@Emily - They can call themselves "feminist" all they want, that doesn't mean they are.

You're right (as is Kyle) - degrading men does not lead to equality. It doesn't help either side.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: @Raquel

"You can't start over or have a clean slate if you have no idea what it's like to be discriminated against or devalued."

Applying this ...More@Raquel

"You can't start over or have a clean slate if you have no idea what it's like to be discriminated against or devalued."

Applying this logic elsewhere would bring me to the conclusion that every non-black person needs to sell themselves into slavery to African Americans for hundreds (if not thousands) of years in order to rectify the past.

As someone else said, two wrongs don't make a right.

Also, we have to learn from the past lest we be condemned to repeat it. I forget who said that, and I'm too lazy to look it up
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: Errr...Africans...not african americans. Well them too. Okay. Shutting up.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: God, I hate our need to be PC and say the right thing at all times.
80 weeks ago

Vinnie Bergl: "...I'm too lazy to look it up" Because you're a man. (Just kidding. Couldn't pass it up though.)
80 weeks ago

Shana Ross: So, hot button here. :)
If you don't mind, I'd love to give a little context - Kyle's post on GirlMeetsGeek certainly read to me as one of ...MoreSo, hot button here. :)
If you don't mind, I'd love to give a little context - Kyle's post on GirlMeetsGeek certainly read to me as one of personal experience, offering his own thoughts on how TV affects him. Here's some references for research being done (and, I apologize, I can't directly link to my sources, but you'll be able to find the articles through EBSCOhost or similar academic resources if you have access)

1) the predominant concern when it comes to child development and boys is NOT buffoonery. It's the overwhelmingly heterosexual and aggressive depiction of men on TV. If your tastes tend towards sitcoms (and, ahem, if you don't actually like watching a lot of tv...or have cable in your house) you likely have a skewed perspective on the representations of masculinity on tv.

2) Check out Beauty and the Patriarchal Beast, by Kimberly R. Walsh, Elfriede Fursich, and Bonnie S. Jefferson, published in the Fall 2008 issue of the Journal of Popular Film and Television. Those sensitive to depictions of stupid men will find their perceptions confirmed...but the article goes on to address the more subtle reinforcement of patriarchy as those men still rule their feisty wives and household. (That all around gender damage, by the way, Kyle never denied...he just didn't address it)
80 weeks ago

: @Kyle - It doesn't have to be something as literal as that to change the perception of the majority. Sometimes it only takes a shift in power to ...More@Kyle - It doesn't have to be something as literal as that to change the perception of the majority. Sometimes it only takes a shift in power to make people realize how much bigotry they actually hold within their own mind, even if they didn't realize it before.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: @Vinnie: Ooh. Walked right into that one.
80 weeks ago

: and as far as being "PC" being PC is only for those who have a disconnect between what their mind really thinks and what their mouth has to say. ...Moreand as far as being "PC" being PC is only for those who have a disconnect between what their mind really thinks and what their mouth has to say. Get your mouth and your mind connected and on the right track and you won't have to worry about what comes out of it.
80 weeks ago

Kyle Hendrickson: For those wondering, the reason I didn't address female stereotypes in the media is very simple: I'm not a female. I don't know what it feels ...MoreFor those wondering, the reason I didn't address female stereotypes in the media is very simple: I'm not a female. I don't know what it feels like.

Quite frankly, the way women are portrayed as shallow, vapid, materialistic consumerists and sex hounds on shows like Sex and the City makes me want to vomit... but I know tons of women who own every season on dvd and went to see the films. Even Christian women from my church were declaring its greatness.

My initial article that I shared with you was played off by its original audience for the fact that I was a man complaining about "ridiculous stereotypes no guy ever ever should" to paraphrase between comments on twitter and girlmeetsgeek.

I knew ahead of time that if I attempted to address female issues, my perspective would be played off all the more, or perhaps more likely would have been met with the response, "Good article. Too bad it was written by a man."

I'd get things like:

"Why do you talk like you know what it's like to be a woman?"
"You should spend 6 months as a woman"(Oh wait, I actually got that one anyway)
and
"Who does this guy think he is?"

My good intentions would be met with scorn based solely on the fact that I'm a dude.

So that's why I didn't talk about what I've observed about women on tv.

The other reason is because it would have been twice as long, and I know how hard it is to hold an internet reader's attention that long

80 weeks ago

Erin Lariviere: @Kyle - I think the issue is that anytime the word "sexism" comes up, the knee jerk reaction is to think men discriminating against women.

It's ...More@Kyle - I think the issue is that anytime the word "sexism" comes up, the knee jerk reaction is to think men discriminating against women.

It's understandable. It is the most common and longest-running form of sexism, to say the least.

At this point, given that sexism against women is still going strong, I don't think we can discuss discrimination against men without paying lip service to the other side (although I totally understand your reasons for not including it).

It's clearly a very heated topic, with strong opinions on all sides.

I do agree with you on negative representations of men in the media being an issue that needs to be addressed.

That's why I think it's best to look at it as a wider social issue, which is what it really is given that it's experienced by both men and women.

We are the consumers. We're the ones creating the demand for these stereotypes. It's curious why we'd do that.

Would be interesting to hear a sociologist or psychologist weigh in.
80 weeks ago

: @Raquel - If you were so pro-equality and not anti-male you wouldn't be trying to silence a male's opinion by ridiculing him and trying to get him ...More@Raquel - If you were so pro-equality and not anti-male you wouldn't be trying to silence a male's opinion by ridiculing him and trying to get him to just shut up. Might I suggest that you take the time to find that connection you're so fond of yourself?

Has bad stuff happened to women? Yes. Does it still happen sometimes? Probably. Does that change the fact that bad things are being done to men too? Hell No.
58 weeks ago

: @Erin - The reason the perception of feminism as being "anti-male" is because the most vocal and visible "loud and proud" people who identify ...More@Erin - The reason the perception of feminism as being "anti-male" is because the most vocal and visible "loud and proud" people who identify themselves as feminists behave in an incredibly hostile anti-male fashion. The strongest messages given to young women are "girl power" and "embrace your inner goddess". Hardly the words of balance or equality.

It may be that these people don't "get" what real grass-roots feminism is about, but if the people who do don't speak up until it's too late then that's what people are going to see.

58 weeks ago

: ety who have come to base their culture on what they see on TV, I think the main reason people watch these shows is that it shows something that ...Moreety who have come to base their culture on what they see on TV, I think the main reason people watch these shows is that it shows something that is "less than" what most people think of themselves as. People like to point and laugh at "stupid people". We're not allowed to do it in the "real world", so we turn to TV to provide a source of stupid people to laugh at.
58 weeks ago

Graham Burger: it's a good strategy - as long as woman believe it, we're sweet!
17 weeks ago

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