Hey Jake, awesome post I fully agree with you! Not a big fan of dressing "up." I'd rather dress to suit how I feel comfortable and professional.

I'm no fashionista by any stretch, but this is definitely a cool group for the more eccentric dressers on here who want to fabulous at work but need to tone it down to satisfy their uptight HR execs.

http://www.brazencareerist.com/group/dress-code-personal-style

My former boss was a farmer who looked like a grubby ex-professional wrestler in blue jeans and a denim shirt. The first time I saw him on Sunday, I was astonished. In his three-piece black suit, he looked like a professional Mafia hit man, debonair and fashionable. Who was the real man?

At Seattle FilmWorks, the dress standard was shorts & t-shirts. The CEO wore flipflops. It was the best place I ever worked, with the most intelligent, fun, and professional co-workers. Those people were real.

If clothes don't make the man, why are you only comfortable if you are wearing tattered cargo pants and t-shirts? If clothes don't make the man, why do you feel like a bear in a clown suit in dressy clothes? If clothes don't make the man, why are you so adamant that a suit and tie doesn't represent who you are? I don't think your arguments are very logical.

I think it comes down to comfort and personal style. Right now I am on a ferry heading to a board meeting and I swapped out the cargo shorts for pants and a nicer t and put on a pea coat. Do I look like I care about my appearance? Yes. Do I look like someone died or that I have a bridge to sell? No.
All I am suggesting is that there are better ways to garner trust than putting on a bollo.

I also have a crazy notion that ties and the like will not be a very big sell with genY. Call me crazy but most of the time someone has lied to us, they've done it with a tie on.

"I also have a crazy notion that ties and the like will not be a very big sell with genY. Call me crazy but most of the time someone has lied to us, they've done it with a tie on."

I guarantee you that people lie regardless of their attire.

Based on your post, you're one of them.

Here's the thing: you have a point. Clothing sends a message, and that message is not always accurate, largely due to people layering their own assumptions on someone else's presentation.

But here's the other thing: you don't have a point. Because your own assumptions are not necessarily any more accurate than anyone else's, and I don't see you questioning that. If what you said was, "I try to get beyond the external image and judge a person based on their words and actions," I'd be fine with that. But instead you suggest that casual clothing is inherently more honest than more formal clothing, and that just is ridiculous. People are honest or dishonest. Clothing is a collection of inanimate objects.

I still know they're salesmen. Changing their uniform doesn't change their job, or their goals.

To that I'd say that I'm not sure it does change their approach, and that far too many people aren't paying attention to details and thinking critically anyhow.

They don't make them less trustworthy, either, but spin it in whatever way you want.

And while you're at it, consider this: earlier, you said, "I wear clothes I am comfortable in, not to define myself but because it's what is in my closet."

How did those clothes get there? Did they beam into your closet ala Star Trek? Or did you choose them? That choice was intentional, and I'm not sure why you think it wasn't.

If clothes don't make the man, then there's no reason you shouldn't feel like yourself in a suit. You're the same person, so why let yourself get thrown by it?

But back to salespeople, although I hate to keep picking on them as a group. When I bought my last new car, I did a lot of research on the vehicle I wanted and went to two different dealerships. I bought the car from the guy who treated me like a serious customer and didn't talk down to me. I have no idea what he was wearing at the time. Suit? Khakis? No idea. I do remember his behavior, though, and I can tell you this--I didn't buy a car from the guy at the other dealership who did talk down to me, and I don't remember what he was wearing, either. I didn't judge either of them based on their clothing, but on their demeanor and professionalism.

If you're going to put out the call for people not to judge you based on your clothing, you have to be prepared to behave that way yourself. Otherwise there isn't the slightest reason for me to take that call seriously.

Culturally, it was a norm. Practically, they can make your shoes and feet stink less at the end of the day.

And they are much more cumbersome, uncomfortable, and fragile than a necktie.

But I've never heard anyone say, "Oh, pantyhose indicate dishonesty."

Again, you need to pick a point. If you want your argument to be valid and defensible, that is.

I'd like it if you'd do that, too. I think I've demonstrated (a) how I have done that in my life, and (b) how you're doing exactly what you decry.

So what's your next step? What do you examine and then put into action to achieve this goal?