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Let's just say that your family is driving down the road to come and visit you at your house. On the way there a drunk driver smashes into them causing great harm, if not death. Let's also say that you come to find out that this driver is here illegally. So they are:
1. Illegally here in the U.S.
2. Driving illegally on the roads
3. Intoxicated
4. More than likely have some sort of false identification (driver's license or social security card)
If you really think that is a far fetched story, you can search the Internet for like-wise crimes committed by illegal immigrants and find MANY. This just so happens to be a case that I hear a women tell over the radio in her own words.
Had that person gone through the system the right way or not at all, they probably would have never been on the road. I say "probably, because there is always the chance that had they done the right things they could still have been stupid enough to end up in the same predicament.
Where am I going with this? Who knows, cause I certainly don't, I am just a racist Conservative. No, I actually have a point here.
This week in the Supreme Court, the Justices ruled unanimously that federal identity-theft law may not be used against many illegal workers who used false Social Security numbers to get jobs.
Apparently prosecutors were using the identity theft to pressure the immigrants (illegal) into confessions of smaller crimes.
According to this NYT article:
“If it turns out that the number belongs to a real person,” Justice Alito wrote, “two years will be added to the defendant’s sentence, but if the defendant is lucky and the number does not belong to another person, the statute is not violated.”
While that is certainly not a "backwards" step, it still only treats the symptoms and does not cure the source.
As with so many other things that deal with illegal immigrants, we keep looking at and right past the word "illegal". They shouldn't be here in the first place and therefore should be subject to the law, not have laws made to cater to them.
Let me be very clear, I am all for immigrants, as long as they go through the correct process. Illegal immigrants only hurt and hinder the system while causing pocket problems across the country. My ancestors didn't start off here in America, they immigrated here from England and Italy, but they went through Ellis Island and did the right thing.
This also brings me to all of this conversion to Spanish language everywhere. Billboards in all Spanish, press 2 for Spanish. At some point you have to assimilate. Our ancestors did and to be a part of this society you should too. We appreciate our heritage but to think that a country you move to has to bend its traditions to cater to you is just ridiculous.
While I am on the topic, I hate when people refer to themselves as "African American" or "Italian American" or anything else American. You are an American, be proud of that.
That was another rant, excuse me.
Back to the article:
"Nearly 8 million illegal immigrants are working in the United States, the Pew Hispanic Center in Washington estimates.
Stephen H. Legomsky, a professor of immigration law at Washington University School of Law in St. Louis, said Monday’s decision would have a major impact on the strategy of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, making it more difficult for the agency to press criminal charges against immigrants with no other offenses but working illegally. "
"The Obama administration has said that it will shift the focus of immigration enforcement to employers who intentionally hire unauthorized immigrants in order to pay lower wages or otherwise lower costs. But last week the administration said agents would continue to detain illegal immigrants found in raids."
Some good news, some bad news...what can you do but sit back and watch the chaos?
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Comments
05.07.09
Just wondering, why does calling yourself an Italian American or an African American mean you're not proud to be American?
05.07.09
@Alexander-Good question! I get a little riled up about that because we have everyone screaming for equality, treat me like you would treat that person, I deserve every opportunity to try and achieve what I want, and I agree with all that BUT then you have some of those people that then want to be separated by labels.
I feel the more we categorize ourselves as this race vs. that race or this heritage vs. that heritage WHILE chanting equal speech, it is counter-active.
I think what you need to take away from that specific statement is this, I am all for legal citizens being treated the same, having the same shots at the pursuit of happiness but in order for us to move past the things that hinder that we need to stop being hypocritical.
Myself, I am extremely proud of my Italian heritage (even though I am a little less than half Italian) I still act like I am full blooded Italian. I am just more proud to be an American.
As an example, I see certain people driving around their cars with the country's flag that they are from and it just makes me wonder why they are more proud to have that hanging from their rear view mirror than the American Flag.
But this is a post about illegal immigration, and what you are referring to is merely a little rant within the body of the post.
05.07.09
I'm with Alexander. I don't think being proud of your culture is a bad thing, nor does it make you less proud to be an American. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And I don't think people use those 'labels' as a way to separate themselves, as much as it is a way to announce their cultural backgrounds. Beyond that, the label is not what's hindering equality.
As far as the incorporation of Spanish, I'm a little confused about this one too. Why does it bother you?
05.07.09
Looking at your story above, how is it relevant that the person is an illegal immigrant? They got drunk, drove, and killed someone. That's not tied to any nationality, but rather stupidity (and potentially alcoholism). They should get charged with DUI Manslaughter the same way you or I would. Their country of origin is irrelevant.
Having worked in numerous restaurants during high school and college, I saw first-hand these immigrants. They worked hard, mostly kept to themselves, and sent money back home to help their families. And at least where I worked, they were on the payroll, which meant they paid taxes. They also purchased goods and services, which also meant they contributed. Should they go through the process of getting citizenship? Yes. But that process is long and very expensive. The Ellis Island methods are long-gone, so that isn't a valid comparison.
In terms of "learning the language", I agree that English should be learned, but I don't see an issue with providing Spanish, since most likely they are dealing with a detailed issue and it would be preferable to all parties involved that they use the language they are most comfortable with. If I called my bank, and I spoke perfect Spanish and o.k. English, I believe the bank would prefer that we discuss the matter in Spanish, in an attempt to prevent any mistake as a result of a language breakdown. After all, English is one of the hardest languages to learn.
05.07.09
@Kiersten, if you don't get my response to Alexander, explaining it won't make it an easier for you to understand.
As far as the incorporation of Spanish, find me another country where the country itself has to assimilate to the immigrants coming in instead of the opposite being true.
I think it is nice that our educational system allows for us to be able to take classes to learn any type of language we want, but for us to have to cater to those that are unwilling to assimilate into our culture and provide them an extra set of instructions for everything is just ridiculous.
05.07.09
Andrew, the person that drove drunk and killed people WAS illegally here. It is relevant because he shouldn't have been here.
Ellis Island, yes that is long gone and maybe, no definitely, we do need to take a look at the process and streamline it.
I also worked in a restaurant for 6 years to get through college and I also worked with a number of them, they certainly were great. But you pointed out two problems in your mentioning of that:
1. They were on a payroll, if they are getting paid and are paying taxes, they should have been discovered and deported unless they were on some sort of visa.
2. You mentioned they were sending money back to their family in the original country. While that is certainly a noble idea and good for their family, that is just more US currency leaving the country and being spent in another country. If every illegal immigrant sent only $1 back a week, can you see how that adds up to be a major problem? I know with this administration it seems like millions is small now, billions is something to talk about and trillions are the norm, but money is money and it is one of the things rotting our economic system from within.
Not to mention all of the money that we throw at education, welfare, shelter and everything else for illegal immigrants that far exceeds the total cost for the war in Iraq on a yearly basis, yet that is not brought up at all when complaining about wasted money.
05.07.09
@Chris - to your question about language: Quebec requires all signs to be in both French and English. Most European countries begin teaching English in schools at the same time as their native language, thus they assimilated us.
05.07.09
Ok, does it make sense that I would then also say that this is not only an American issue? I don't think any country should make you assimilate, I don't think they needed to do that for us.
I think if it was just a class they could take it makes sense, especially since America is a world leader especially in political and economical situations, so yea, it would kind of make sense if English is something they wanted to learn.
05.07.09
Chris,
I find that some of your conservative values get in your way. You believe strongly that illegals have no right to be here, thats fine, nobody will argue against that belief. But you also believe strongly in the constitution, and hate activist judges. So if a law is deemed unconstitutional, but furthers your social agenda which do you choose? If the supreme court unanimously judged the law to be unconstitutional that means your guy Alito deemed it so.
Also, you, as a conservative are for free market enterprise. Anything goes as long as it is laze-faire right? then why the beef: This also brings me to all of this conversion to Spanish language everywhere. Billboards in all Spanish. Most Spanish people are here legally and they can do whatever they want, economically speaking. If a company thinks it can generate revenue by appealing to the Spanish speaking crowd.
So, what I'm interested in is how you as a conservative battle with your internal contradicting forces. Last example, conservatives were very happy in that recent case that said handgun ban was illegal in Washington D.C. but were happy for the result and not the originalist judiciary beliefs they supposedly adhere too. George Will's column on this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/21/AR200811...
05.07.09
On the language issue - other countries that learn/teach English don't do so because they want to be culturally enlightened. They do it to keep up in the world. English is the dominant language. Deal with it. Chris basically nailed it.
Immigrants that come here and don't fully learn our language are basically relegating themselves to lower class citizens into perpetuity. There simply are not that many high paying jobs you can do in this country that don't require fluent English.
Andrew - the fact that your illegal restaurant friends were nice, hard working, product consuming individuals is great but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to be here illegally. The fact that the immigration laws are difficult to comply with also does not warrant breaking those laws.
And how is it NOT relevant that a murderer should not even be in our country in the first place. He was already in violation of the law before he got behind the wheel.
05.07.09
Incorporating the language of immigrants has been common for a long time, probably for your Italian-American immigrant ancestors Chris. Ever visit the midwest and north? I've been to towns where everything was in German. Back then there was more space, so all the German immigrants could go set up their own community of farms (often purchased under the homestead acts), build a church for their faith, and they didn't need to learn english. Many of these towns remained german or norwegian isolated until WWII. Comparing today's immigrants to these immigrants is not practical. Back then if you had the money to sail here, you could probably park at Ellis until they let you in. Now quotas are so low, especially for latino countries, almost nobody can get in. And there just isn't wide open space and government funded programs that allow the immigrants to purchase land off on their own, so instead they are in the cities with us. I see this as a culturally enriching experience. The same as you are proud of your Italian heritage, I am proud of my Latino neighbors. They bring change, innovation, and talen to my community. Do we need to stop illegal immigration? Yes. Should we stop blaming the people who move here for a better life? Yes.
05.07.09
Let me say this in regards to the article, I was happy that they didn't completely give up and just cater to illegals, they are saying that if the SSN belongs to someone else, it is a crime and punishable. So i didn't disagree there. I mainly have a problem with our government giving up on existing laws and trying to treat the "symptoms" instead of the problem, like my title implies. Making laws for illegal immigrants shouldn't have to happen if we enforced the law and got them for being here illegally!
Miles, you make a good point and actually I can personally relate, I live in PA here, way out in the country and we are surrounded with Pennsylvania Dutch folk. The speak their own brand of German, but the thing you have to realize is, with a high population around me, there is no PA Dutch billboards or anything. I also know that people come here for a better life, we need to make that easier, yes, but how do we continue to just let people pour in here with a limited space. I have a feeling that all of Mexico would come here if the gates were opened but we just can't support that, neither can our economy, educational system, support systems and SS system.
Sam, you do make a good point with the capitalism model, you got me there. If it makes a company more money, then I can see why they would cater to that crowd. That comes down to more of a personal opinion than a mandate decision I guess. That kind of relates to that struggle you refer to that I have. I am strong on conservative policies but I think all of us will stray from our political leanings for some personal opinions on certain situations.
05.07.09
By the way, speaking of population here in the US. Scott made a good point about those "good" immigrants.
There certainly are good ones, and i have a feeling they outnumber the bad ones, yet, statistics are showing that over 45% of our prison population is that of latino descent, especially those that are here illegally. When you look at those numbers, it doesn't help the cause for those opposing my view on this.
05.07.09
It's also interesting to note that two of the biggest group of illegal immigrants in Australia are actually British and...Americans!
So, American illegals. When are you thinking of leaving?
And what's with the anti-Spanish attitude? You know Spain is a rich First World country, right? Their people are unlikely to become illegal immigrants...
05.07.09
What stats are those? Last I looked it, at least for males, the prison population was Caucasian/NH .727 PER 100,000, Caucasian/Hispanic 1.76 per 100,000, African American 4.7 per 100,000.
You must be thinking of different stats, those of sentencing per year, which is a totally different thing altogether, and has increased significantly the past two years due to immigration offense sentencing (on a federal level). It doesn't mean 45 percent of the prison population is Hispanic.
(http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/jim08st.pdf)
You can find Federal stats here
http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/jails.htm
05.07.09
Ordinarily I would say something about the inherent racism of the anti-immigration crowd, and that might be a good point to make.
However I'm looking for low-end jobs right now and they seem to be all filled up by illegal immigrants. So, whatevs.
05.07.09
Chris - Responses to a few of your points:
1. I agree that people entering the country illegally is a problem for several reasons. However, the ruling on the identity theft law is not an example of our court system favoring illegal immigrants. It is an example of the court system enforcing the law fairly as it is written, rather than punishing people for crimes they have not committed, which is actually a very good aspect of the American justice system.
2. Regarding "conversion to Spanish language," I think it's wrong to look at the issue as one side forcing the other side to accomodate a certain language. If businesses want to advertise in Spanish, host radio shows in spanish, etc., I can't think of any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to do this. There are a lot of things about American culture that are worth preserving by "force", but I don't think the English language is one of them.
3. I don't really have a problem with people referring to themselves as Italian American, African American, etc. In some cases, it serves a useful purpose. Also, why should anyone have to be proud of being an American citizen? Most of us just happened to be born here, but could just as easily have been born anywhere else.
05.07.09
Chris,
Thanks for your response. I guess I disagree because I believe identity, ethnicity and patriotism are all very complex issues and therefore I believe we shouldn't judge. I also disagree with a key element of your point, whereby, I don't think it's necessary for a citizen to be patriotic. I am an Australian citizen however during the time of the Howard Government I would often state that I was not proud to be Australian (due to many of the government policies of the time and the way that being "Australian" or "Unaustralian" was being portrayed). I don't think this makes me a bad person, but I believe that the countries we live in are merely a system of nation-states, an intellectual geopolitical construct. There's nothing wrong with loving your country, I respect that, however I also believe that it's ok to not love your country (as long as you don't do anything violent or that hurts anyone else).
Anyways though this is getting a bit away from your main point about illegal immigration but just thought I'd add that two cents.
05.15.09
Just one word about Spanish-speaking: please look up the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hildalgo.
In the Southwest, at least, there is an expectation of being "allowed" to speak Spanish that dates back to this treaty.
Just sayin'
10.09.10
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