Being a former recruiter myself I agree with all of your statements except one, and I do agree, but I still think it needs some clarification.

Thank you notes sent to recruiters are a waste of time and trees. Thank you notes sent to a perspective employeer are not. Especially if your perspective employeer is old school. You have to know your audience.

I'm just curious. What value do you provide? What do you legitmately do to earn a living? You try to write like you are someone who is trying to sound important and speak with authority but you come across as someone a real IT manager would ignore like the plague. The truth is, recruiters are just like car salesman, travel agents (sorry... travel consultants), real estate agents, and PR agencies. They have all been replaced by the internet and the business world is still acting in a "baby boomer manner" to put it in your words. First thing I did in my role at this company was to get rid of the reccruiters and corporate travel agents. Sorry, I'm not paying you to surf Facebook.

And all this rubbish I hear Gen-Y "experts" spout off about how great the job market is? That cracks me up. Truth of the matter is, I'm hiring in India, Eastern Europe, and China. All you supposed "technology experts" who can plug in an Ipod I show to the door. Your "brazen attitude" just got your job given to a low cost worker eager to earn his salary.

And guess what? With today's job numbers that came out, you're going to actually have to start looking for a job yourself...

This is the kind of arrogant nonsense that has turned me off to recruiters entirely. Here in Cleveland, as a senior developer, it's a sellers' market. Every recruiter calls with the same lines, often pitching the same positions. They don't add value. They waste my time.

In this arrangement, I'm going to find a job, probably on my terms. I don't need to jump through your hoops, you need to sell a real value proposition on why I should engage in a relationship with you. Cut through the bullshit and tell me the who, where and how much.

That's probably why big companies suck so much to work for and aren't agile enough to move quickly and change the world. And yet, they're arrogant for this too. They wonder why people in garages are kicking their asses.

Job seekers are not impressed with Fortune ranking or your process. They're interested in working for someone who doesn't view them as cattle.

Tell me you didn't just say you are like the Simon Cowell of recruiting??? You are a business professional comparing yourself to a reality TV character??? That makes about as much sense as paying a recruiter for their "services"...

You're joking, right? Where did all of the great technology companies of the last ten years come from? IBM, Microsoft, HP and Sun have all been owned or had to pursue entirely different businesses. Well, Microsoft is doing OK, but they're rightfully in a panic and hopefully doing the right things, finally.

Ford, GM and Chrysler are begging for a loan while everyone else in the world kicks their asses in existing product lines, and a little start-up in the valley and an even smaller start-up in the Middle East create viable electric alternatives.

All of the retailers in the 500 see somewhere between negative and 1% growth this year for black Friday, while online niche retailers see enormous double-digit growth.

Most of the banks in the 500 are failures or in danger of failing.

Size is overrated, and you're living in some kind of 60's era idealism if you think people want to work for these giant bloated dinosaurs.

Believe whatever you want. It's a business. There is no loyalty, especially in big companies. Quality people that I meet at conferences aren't working at big companies. They don't offer anything to keep smart people engaged. The only exception I've encountered is Microsoft, but even they're too big to effectively match the right people with the right jobs.

You choose to keep the blinders on and ignore everything I said. "They exist therefore they are" is not a validation of their worthiness for good people. It's arrogant and stupid, and you seem to want to play right into that. What's the average time someone spends at a company now? It's three years in IT.

I had a discussion today (not an interview) with a company of about 20 people today for a software architecture gig. They manage the online brand for a number of, wait for it, Fortune 500 companies who can't do it themselves. They respect my time, my skills and my desire to engage in things that make me want to get up in the morning. The companies they work for are too bogged down in process and their own inability to execute to hire someone like me.

If your pitch to me was, "We're awesome, you'd be lucky to work here," that's weak.

You clearly didn't see my point. I don't think any smart people in any meaningful quantity are working at big companies.

I have no illusions about The Man, but the bigger The Man gets, the more bloated he gets, and the less fun he is to work for. You define success as money and size, which is pretty good example of why we're in the mess we are. All that money in size hasn't done jack for us, has it? If innovation and jobs continue to see growth patterns elsewhere, it's at our expense. GE had the Universal NBC division cut 500 jobs today because all that blue chip advertising has been drastically scaled back. You can't sit there and blame the economy and pretend the big companies aren't key problems in said economy.

Your argument is confined to size and money (which, if you're paying attention, is thin in big companies too). Bringing it full circle, these are not incentives or reason for you to treat people like you're doing them some favor. You're not. Try being respectful instead of arrogant.

Unless of course you just want drones, because it sounds like that's exactly what you want.

I think you're making a sad generalization about the people who work for the most large and successful companies. whatever, i'm uninterested in that debate anyway.

Moving on to where you attack me for being arrogant and disrespectful...

Go back, read my post, and tell me one place where I showed any form of rudeness to a candidate. The only example you could say is throwing out the resume. I responded sarcastically to a candidate's snarky comment. I made my point that I wanted to HEAR it, not read it and we got on with the interview.

No, I don't read thank you notes...but a candidate never knew that. I never showed rudeness to my candidates.

The post was about my pet peeves and giving an inside look into how some recruiters feel about certain interviewer behavior. I've received an overwhelming number of emails from recruiters who said "thank you for saying what I don't have the guts to say."
The post wasn't about how I counseled every single candidate I ever met (which I did). I helped them understand why they were not a fit for certain jobs, and always advised where the industry was dry for candidates. I did almost as much career counseling as recruiting. I was always nice to my candidates. I almost always told the candidates what they could correct about their interview behavior as well. Though they may have hit on my pet peeves, I know those behaviors can be corrected and they would be well served to adopt better techniques. Simple interview behaviors are important to certain kinds of recruiters.

You don't have to like the way I think (and of course, I would welcome you to disagree with it), but it still is a reality that should be considered.

This post rocked my socks!

These rules aren't just for high power recruiter interviews. In college I did a ton of interviews for a smoothie franchise I worked for, and this list is a good representation of one I would have made for the interviewees back then. But I would have called it "15 Rules for Getting a Part Time, Minimum Wage Job".

I really would expect "professionals" to have better interview etiquette than 16 year old high school kids, but apparently not all of them do.

I love the "go back and read my post" angle. Shall we invoke Godwin's Law too?

If everyone is calling you to pat you on the back, then the problem is obviously as widespread as I perceive it to be. I realize you get morons applying for jobs, but at the end of the day, recruiters represent their staffing firms (which add no value to anyone, and I firmly believe are a scam), as well as the companies that you think are so sweet. It's one thing to object to candidates with body odor, but your attitude that suggests people should worship you and the great service you offer is arrogant and you should be embarrassed for speaking it out loud.

@Jeff- Telling you to read my post isn't an angle...I'm asking because you seem to have blown my examples out of proportion and fail to see that my writing voice is intentionally sarcastic (i.e. Steven Colbert-ish). I am telling no one to worship me. I am telling them that if you want me to work for you, you should work equally hard also! First impressions are important, and that cannot be denied. You, however, have taken every opportunity to try to call me names and imply I'm a bad person and should be embarassed for my opinions. We can disagree...it's a beautiful thing. My point is that because i have a high expectation for people I choose to represent I think candidates should be aware of that and be on their game if they choose to enter that world. You, clearly do not want a recruiter's help, and don't plan to work for a company that requires you to go through a recruiting firm....so it shouldn't matter to you. You've chosen a different path, and good for you. Great!

DC- I've answered this question on the original blog post, but not here. One of the things i did as a recruiter was set the stage. I guarantee them i will call back with any single tid-bit of information, and I back that up with follow-through. I even called them if it had been 2-3 days to let them know if I HADN'T heard anything just to keep them in the loop. I told them I would do that up front...so if they STILL call and call and call, I lose my patience and it shows they don't trust me. That's no relationship at all.
On the thank you note thing. It's a personal choice. If you want to send one, send one. I personally am unimpressed by them. As a job seeker you should know that not every recruiter likes a thank you note. No, I didn't REALLY exclude a candidate based on a TY note, but it doesn't help my impression of them.
You're right, candidates don't come in tidy packages! So, yes, i took in Super duper rock star candidates who "violated" one of my rules (gasp!). It's the overall picture I looked at.

@Jeff- You called me arrogant, and say I should be be embarrassed of my opinions. But whatev...moving on. So glad to hear you got a job offer and will never ever have to deal with an arrogant former recruiter like myself. Good luck to you, and peace!

Thanks for the great reminders!

It seems to me that the most important point here is that there is really no one "right" way to handle things like thank you notes. I can understand a recruiter who doesn't read thank you notes, but it does seem a bit over the top to hold writing a thank you note against a candidate. (Unless you read the note and it has an error. That would be a strike against someone in my book.)

Maybe it's just my bias, but I think it is much more reasonable to penalize someone for NOT writing a thank you note!

Also, the distinction between thanking the recruiter vs. an employer seems important. Knowing your audience is key, and I think anyone reading this who eliminates thank you notes from their job hunts would be making a mistake.

@ Jeff

I lived in Cleveland for over 30 years and the market there is not a good reflection of a market where a recruiter is needed. Unfortunately Cleveland is an export city and the few Fotune 500 businesses that haven't left can hand pick the talent from the market without the assistance of a staffing specialist. It is not a market like New York, Chicago, or an IT heavy market live California or Raleigh/Durham where talent is much more competative. Your views on recuiting are off base versus the rest of the US, sorry.

Check this out and maybe you will understand what I mean.

http://www.lincolninst.edu/pubs/film_series.asp

Jeff- this blog is about the views of a hard core (successful) recruiter. It is not a study of market or industry trends. It should be noted, though, that most recruiters agree with the post and those that disagree are IT candidates that don't want to face the reality of IT consulting. Regardless, my basic principles apply to any market and any industry. Show up on time, look presentable, answer questions with honesty, work hard, be willing to take advice....its simple stuff.

I keep asking the same question over and over again and never get a good answer.

If getting a job is so tough--and it is for me--why is service so sucky everywhere I go?

Example: in the library, we had to wait to get our books checked out while the librarian texted her friends. I'd do her job w/o texting. I don't text. Yet. Why does she get to have this job?

I can go on and on how people give excuses like, "this isn't my job." Those words are not in my vocabulary.

I suck at doing resumes and cover letters. I'm not good at interviewing because I lack confidence because so many places didn't hire me.

I guess this answers my question.

Still, it seems so unfair that people who are not nice, intelligent, or even as qualified as me get jobs. I think it's really unfair how they just look at people's appearance and not what kind of job they had done in the past, and certainly not their intelligence. The only way to know their intelligence would be to test. I test high.

In the jobs I did well, I always did more than expected. I exceeded expectations every time.

I blame the HR staff for this situation because I think that they are just playing a game and not really evaluating the candidates properly. Otherwise, how to explain such shitty service everywhere I do and at every level. See Enron, et al. How can such criminals and slackers get jobs, and I'm on the brink of homelessness?

Breanne:

THANK YOU for sharing this information! I wish more recruiters had the intestinal fortitude to articulate Interviewing 101 the way you did!

As many others before me have noted, I would humbly ask you to consider the motivation behind Thank You notes and why one might wish to consider viewing them from a different perspective in the future. Having in-demand skills is great; however, "people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care" and the statistical fact that over 85% of hiring decisions are based on soft skills such as manners, etc...

At the same time, Jeff had some good points as well:
- At least two of the Fortune 500 companies listed in one of your responses to Jeff are in serious financial trouble right now and at least one of those could literally close at the end of this holiday season.
- Just because "everyone" works there does not mean their business model is valid - psychologically, most Americans are trained through the educational system to be good followers - not good leaders.

For example, in the past few years we have seen the decline of true journalism in U.S. news reporting. This is largely attributable to the consolidation of media outlets by conglomerates such as NewsCorp that issue specific "instructions" to their reporters and newscasters who in turn think, "I better tow the line if I expect to keep my job, keep paying my mortgage, keep my kids in school", etc... Hence, we now see bloggers breaking credible news stories BEFORE the major media.

Knowing that the pool of employers for many types of jobs is now severely limited, literally millions of employees choose to follow the herd, not make waves, and accept conditions that are - in some cases - less-than-desirable. This is not an attempt to portray big business as evil, it is simply a recognition of the fact that part of the reality of today's job market is that many of these global conglomerates suffer the consequences of their aggressive and ongoing expansion efforts in the form of dysfunctional and incongruent organizational behavior that does have a direct and negative impact upon their workforce - the folks who make it possible for CEOs to reap multi-million dollar compensation packages while inflation-adjusted wages for most employees in the United States have declined during the past thirty years (see reports available from the General Accounting Office in Washington D.C.)

Anon-
Re: Rule 1- Genius! Why didn't I think of that? Oh wait, it's because I live in the real world and I know anyone can buy a resume writer and make themselves sound like they have an important job, but have a harder time pulling off a lie when verbally desciribing their job (and answering follow up questions). Want me to tell you about the candidate whose resume said he had an ivy league education, was decorated military, and formerly worked for the president (oh, and the hiring manager LOVED him...until a local Veteran's chapter revealed he was a fraud!). It happens dude!

Re: Rule 2- if asking questions is a waste of time why don't we all just hire based on a resume sight unseen? That's the direction you're going with this.