10 RESPONSES TO "WANT LESS GOVERNMENT? START WITH ENDING THE WAR ON DRUGS."
Kyle
There's a great book on this subject, and many other non-violent (consensual) crimes, called "Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do" by Peter McWilliams. I am sure that there will be comments that drugs cause many violent crimes, but if you look at why (disputes over payment, turf wars, etc.), legalization might solve some of these issues by bringing them out in the open, and allowing for true regulation of the trade. The aforementioned book covers the history of the criminalization of drugs as well.
Great observation. The "War on Drugs" has been one of the biggest failed endeavors of our nation.
I am also deeply troubled by those contradictions that have come about in the conservative mindset...I typically lean Democrat, but after researching the principles upon which the Republican party was actually founded, I think back in the day I definitely would have been on the other side. Small government means small government, not "small government only when I feel like it."
September 16, 2008 10:22 am
William
There is a lot of wasteful spending by both parties in Washington D.C. One example from the other side: Who were the biggest four recipients of donations from the current crop of failed financial institutions: Fannie and Freddie? Chris Dodd, John Kerry, Barak Obama, Hilary Clinton. Yep, all of them are liberals. They were paid with strings attached. Those favors led to the loosening of lending rules and ultimately this crisis. Yet no one is holding them accountable with questions. Employees have lost their jobs and customers are ruined.
So before you try to paint the waste of War on Drugs on McCain, get your own team to be accountable for the waste of taxes in bailouts to a mess they allowed. It will do wonders for your credibility.
September 16, 2008 11:34 am
Daniel
I 100% disagree with the first point you make. I am a conservative, and I do not know one person who is wanting the Fed to bail out Wall Street. In fact everyone I know, R's and D's, is happy that the Fed did not step in for Lehman Bro's, and everyone I know is still pissed that the Fed stepped in for Bear Sterns.
I do, however, completely agree with the second three points. I believe the War on drugs to be worthless. We should legalize them and tax the hell out of them. I've been saying this for a long time, and I've actually converted all of my friends and family to this thinking. Gay people have a right to be happy too, and I want them to be. However, I think we, as a country need to make marraige harder to obtain for everyone. It might lower our divorce rate. Also, while I am against abortion, I admit to being a hypocrite in this regard.
@ William, if you're going to use facts to make a point, at least make a decent point. You failed miserably. What you said about the donations is true, but if you're going to accuse strings of being attached, at least cite something. You can't beat the angry left by getting angry and playing their game. You can only beat them with logic.
I saw the greatest comment on Twitter regarding the current administration's stance toward the economy: "Privatize gains. Socialize losses." I wonder how much their interference is making this crisis last longer rather than just letting bottom fall out so recovery can begin.
I agree that the War on Drugs is useless and actually helps to perpetuate crime. The majority of people incarcerated are there for nonviolent crime. Even if you are anti-legalization, I would think people would be in favor of sending drug addicts to mandatory treatment facilities so they have a shot at rehabilitation.
@Daniel I have to disagree with you on making marriage harder to obtain. I think that the government has no business giving tax benefits to people simply because they are married. Remove this government involvement and gay marriage is no longer a state interest.
@Kyle- I'll definitely look into the book- I'm very interested in the history of our drug policy.
@Sean- I think there's a lot of room for agreement between Libertarians (what conservatives used to be) and today's liberals.
@William- I did not mean to put the whole war on drugs on Mccain- it's much much bigger than him. Democrats share equal responsibility in this mess.
@Daniel- taxing drugs is the greatest idea in the history of taxes. The deficit would be wiped out in no time at all and we could use that money for infrastructure, education, etc. etc. etc.
@Vanessa- the privatize gains and socialize losses policy should have everyone absolutely seething with rage. It's not free market and it's not socialism- it's the worst of both worlds.
September 16, 2008 1:17 pm
Ryan Karpeles
Glad you brought this up Tim.
The problem with today's liberalism is liberalism. The problem with today's conservativism is conservatives. The Bush Administration's biggest failures have been overspending and an inability/unwillingness to sell its policies to the public.
To your actual points:
1. Conservatives are the last people on the planet who want government bailouts. So yes, it is hypocritical for a conservative administration to do this.
2. You're right. Conservatives do not want government interference in people's lives. Abortion and same-sex marriage are the exceptions, particularly because they have massive moral and societal implications. In virtually every other aspect of politics it is liberals who want more government intrusion, regulation, legislation, paternalism, etc.
3. The War on Drugs and the subsequent imprisonment of many non-violent offenders is obviously a problem. There are plenty of better ways to address these issues, and most of them are through private organizations that can help with restorative justice, community service, behavioral/moral improvement, etc. Faith-based organizations in particular have been able to enormously lower the recidivism rate of drug offenders and other criminals.
In short: conservative ideals still hold many of the best remedies. The problem is not the ideals themselves; it's the people in power who have failed to act on them.
Great read. Let's talk about the bloated, Cold War-style military budget and corporate bail outs as well. Borrow and spend conservatives in bed with corporate America.
September 17, 2008 3:19 pm
Kyle Martin
Amen, I think the Wars on (insert your favorite pet cause here) have been abject failures. Cut the BS, face reality, and legalize the damn things already. The War on Pot especially has been a joke from the outset, 70+ years of enforcement, with criminal penalties becoming evermore draconian as the War goes on but any high school senior can STILL score themselves a dime bag of "dankity dank nugs" on any given street corner anywhere in the country. I believe the phrase that most succinctly describes such a state of affairs would be "Epic Fail".
Personally, I say treat it the same as alcohol, an intoxicant that adults can choose to ingest if they so choose. Just tax the crap out of it. Add on enough taxes so that the legal stuff costs the same as what you would currently find on the black market and folks will just move to using the legitimate stuff as they no longer would have to deal with drug dealers and getting busted by the police; same price, none of the risk.
Also, as another poster pointed out, that tax money could then go to several worthy projects, like paying off the national debt, investing in America's electrical and communications infrastructures, or education, or even the God-forsaken war in Iraq.
Another reason that no one has yet to bring up is with the drugs legalized, those incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses can be let back out into the general public and rejoin the workforce, thus generating even greater wealth for the country as a whole, as opposed to sitting in jail on the taxpayer's nickel.
Ending the War on Drugs could quite possibly be one of the smartest things this country could do, it would free up police resources to better go after real criminals, instantly correct prison overpopulation, open up a new market for both business and tax revenue, and shrink down both the size and intrusiveness of the government.
That said, unfortunately I do not see that happening any time in the near future. Politicians on both sides of the aisle are scared to death that they would appear soft on crime or that they would piss off the family values crowd for tacitly espousing drug use. Truly a shame, hopefully I'm wrong.
September 17, 2008 3:26 pm
old shakey
G.W. Bush is not a conservative. Neither is McCain. Sarah Palin is. A true conservative would not have gone to war in Iraq.
As for the war on drugs, it is one of the biggest wastes of money ever. Legalize it and tax the hell out of it. If we did that, got out of Iraq, and brought our military people home from Germany, Japan, And Korea we could pay off the national debt and maintain a strong military.
10 RESPONSES TO "WANT LESS GOVERNMENT? START WITH ENDING THE WAR ON DRUGS."
There's a great book on this subject, and many other non-violent (consensual) crimes, called "Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do" by Peter McWilliams. I am sure that there will be comments that drugs cause many violent crimes, but if you look at why (disputes over payment, turf wars, etc.), legalization might solve some of these issues by bringing them out in the open, and allowing for true regulation of the trade. The aforementioned book covers the history of the criminalization of drugs as well.
Great observation. The "War on Drugs" has been one of the biggest failed endeavors of our nation.
I am also deeply troubled by those contradictions that have come about in the conservative mindset...I typically lean Democrat, but after researching the principles upon which the Republican party was actually founded, I think back in the day I definitely would have been on the other side. Small government means small government, not "small government only when I feel like it."
There is a lot of wasteful spending by both parties in Washington D.C. One example from the other side: Who were the biggest four recipients of donations from the current crop of failed financial institutions: Fannie and Freddie? Chris Dodd, John Kerry, Barak Obama, Hilary Clinton. Yep, all of them are liberals. They were paid with strings attached. Those favors led to the loosening of lending rules and ultimately this crisis. Yet no one is holding them accountable with questions. Employees have lost their jobs and customers are ruined.
So before you try to paint the waste of War on Drugs on McCain, get your own team to be accountable for the waste of taxes in bailouts to a mess they allowed. It will do wonders for your credibility.
I 100% disagree with the first point you make. I am a conservative, and I do not know one person who is wanting the Fed to bail out Wall Street. In fact everyone I know, R's and D's, is happy that the Fed did not step in for Lehman Bro's, and everyone I know is still pissed that the Fed stepped in for Bear Sterns.
I do, however, completely agree with the second three points. I believe the War on drugs to be worthless. We should legalize them and tax the hell out of them. I've been saying this for a long time, and I've actually converted all of my friends and family to this thinking. Gay people have a right to be happy too, and I want them to be. However, I think we, as a country need to make marraige harder to obtain for everyone. It might lower our divorce rate. Also, while I am against abortion, I admit to being a hypocrite in this regard.
@ William, if you're going to use facts to make a point, at least make a decent point. You failed miserably. What you said about the donations is true, but if you're going to accuse strings of being attached, at least cite something. You can't beat the angry left by getting angry and playing their game. You can only beat them with logic.
I saw the greatest comment on Twitter regarding the current administration's stance toward the economy: "Privatize gains. Socialize losses." I wonder how much their interference is making this crisis last longer rather than just letting bottom fall out so recovery can begin.
I agree that the War on Drugs is useless and actually helps to perpetuate crime. The majority of people incarcerated are there for nonviolent crime. Even if you are anti-legalization, I would think people would be in favor of sending drug addicts to mandatory treatment facilities so they have a shot at rehabilitation.
@Daniel I have to disagree with you on making marriage harder to obtain. I think that the government has no business giving tax benefits to people simply because they are married. Remove this government involvement and gay marriage is no longer a state interest.
@Kyle- I'll definitely look into the book- I'm very interested in the history of our drug policy.
@Sean- I think there's a lot of room for agreement between Libertarians (what conservatives used to be) and today's liberals.
@William- I did not mean to put the whole war on drugs on Mccain- it's much much bigger than him. Democrats share equal responsibility in this mess.
@Daniel- taxing drugs is the greatest idea in the history of taxes. The deficit would be wiped out in no time at all and we could use that money for infrastructure, education, etc. etc. etc.
@Vanessa- the privatize gains and socialize losses policy should have everyone absolutely seething with rage. It's not free market and it's not socialism- it's the worst of both worlds.
Glad you brought this up Tim.
The problem with today's liberalism is liberalism. The problem with today's conservativism is conservatives. The Bush Administration's biggest failures have been overspending and an inability/unwillingness to sell its policies to the public.
To your actual points:
1. Conservatives are the last people on the planet who want government bailouts. So yes, it is hypocritical for a conservative administration to do this.
2. You're right. Conservatives do not want government interference in people's lives. Abortion and same-sex marriage are the exceptions, particularly because they have massive moral and societal implications. In virtually every other aspect of politics it is liberals who want more government intrusion, regulation, legislation, paternalism, etc.
3. The War on Drugs and the subsequent imprisonment of many non-violent offenders is obviously a problem. There are plenty of better ways to address these issues, and most of them are through private organizations that can help with restorative justice, community service, behavioral/moral improvement, etc. Faith-based organizations in particular have been able to enormously lower the recidivism rate of drug offenders and other criminals.
In short: conservative ideals still hold many of the best remedies. The problem is not the ideals themselves; it's the people in power who have failed to act on them.
Great read. Let's talk about the bloated, Cold War-style military budget and corporate bail outs as well. Borrow and spend conservatives in bed with corporate America.
Amen, I think the Wars on (insert your favorite pet cause here) have been abject failures. Cut the BS, face reality, and legalize the damn things already. The War on Pot especially has been a joke from the outset, 70+ years of enforcement, with criminal penalties becoming evermore draconian as the War goes on but any high school senior can STILL score themselves a dime bag of "dankity dank nugs" on any given street corner anywhere in the country. I believe the phrase that most succinctly describes such a state of affairs would be "Epic Fail".
Personally, I say treat it the same as alcohol, an intoxicant that adults can choose to ingest if they so choose. Just tax the crap out of it. Add on enough taxes so that the legal stuff costs the same as what you would currently find on the black market and folks will just move to using the legitimate stuff as they no longer would have to deal with drug dealers and getting busted by the police; same price, none of the risk.
Also, as another poster pointed out, that tax money could then go to several worthy projects, like paying off the national debt, investing in America's electrical and communications infrastructures, or education, or even the God-forsaken war in Iraq.
Another reason that no one has yet to bring up is with the drugs legalized, those incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses can be let back out into the general public and rejoin the workforce, thus generating even greater wealth for the country as a whole, as opposed to sitting in jail on the taxpayer's nickel.
Ending the War on Drugs could quite possibly be one of the smartest things this country could do, it would free up police resources to better go after real criminals, instantly correct prison overpopulation, open up a new market for both business and tax revenue, and shrink down both the size and intrusiveness of the government.
That said, unfortunately I do not see that happening any time in the near future. Politicians on both sides of the aisle are scared to death that they would appear soft on crime or that they would piss off the family values crowd for tacitly espousing drug use. Truly a shame, hopefully I'm wrong.
G.W. Bush is not a conservative. Neither is McCain. Sarah Palin is. A true conservative would not have gone to war in Iraq.
As for the war on drugs, it is one of the biggest wastes of money ever. Legalize it and tax the hell out of it. If we did that, got out of Iraq, and brought our military people home from Germany, Japan, And Korea we could pay off the national debt and maintain a strong military.
GOT SOMETHING TO SAY?