It is a matter of the circle of life, we are at the top of the food chain. Amen to italian subs with all the various meats...mmmm

Your STD argument is very poor. The point of such an argument boils down to responsibility in which case YES you take the chance of becoming pregnant or getting an STD, so before you do the dance you have to accept that those two things are consequences of what could happen.

It also seems you have a pure hatred for men, that they have no rights at all in this situation. Maybe less rights but they are still the other parent.

Your paragraph about crime was all over the place and I couldn't coherently follow it, either way it was a crazy stretch I would imagine.

Tim -- a fetus is not a person, it has no say in the matter

all issues have their sticking points for a variety of reasons.

with abortion -- we can't say that boths sides want to see less abortion. show me evidence that the leading pro-life groups are for widespread available for contraceptives; I've never seen it. . . since 50% of the abortions come from the 10% of the population that doesn't use contraceptives, what a way to halve the abortion rate! !

I'll meet you half way, Tim. Yes, people do need to be able to discuss political issues rationally.

However, there's a practical problem: spin works. Combine that with the facts that the average attention is shorter and that TV-spots are only 30 seconds and expensive, you've gotta get your point across quickly and so that people don't forget it.

I don't necessarily condone this poster, but people will remember Obama's face pasted onto Uncle Sam, oh yeah, and he's pro-abortion.

So unless there are some paradigm shifts in our culture, spin and talking points will continue to be effective. People and groups who want to advance their agenda will use proven tactics until they don't work anymore.

Wow, what nice comments...Bravo Tim for sticking to your story and not backing down!

As a young woman who has gone through this I can say that is an emotionally challenging thing to do and so is adoption. I also feel that this is one of those "I agree to disagree" discussions since like you stated there is no cut and dry, right or wrong answer. It is highly situational and should not be judged based on religious beliefs or personal feelings.

I remember hearing someone tell me that God would forgive me. But what I was thinking about was forgiving myself.

@Leigh-Last time I checked politics is a career path AND you are in the "Politics" section of Brazen Careerist.

@ Leigh's comment:
"That said, abortions should be a private medical decision between a woman and her doctor. The opinions of the government and the general populace have no place in one’s personal life."

If only it were that simple. But once a woman has conceived, it's no longer "one's personal life," but the personal lives of two people - mother and child.

Of course, that distinction is where the fundamental controversy begins.

@Bart and Leigh- there are actually 4 people involved. Woman, doctor, child, and the father, if he's around. See how quickly the list grows?

like the one already happening in this comment section.

this is the only way we should discuss politics:

http://toothpastefordinner.com/tfd-archives/tfdarchive-jul08.php

I think discussing controversial political topics doesn't really belong on a blog about business, just like it doesn't belong in the workplace.

That said, abortions should be a private medical decision between a woman and her doctor. The opinions of the government and the general populace have no place in one's personal life.

Tim, I am not talking about the fetus. I am talking about the mother. I phrase the debate in terms of the woman. If you want to talk about the fetus's rights, please be honest enough to say that in doing so you are leaving the mother out. I do the same.

I do not support abortion. I agree with you that late term abortions should be completely outlawed and that no state money should be given to support abortion (as is the case right now). I too think that adoption is a much better alternative. I also do not support the death penalty. I support life sentences that are truly life sentences, and forcing inmates to contribute to their cost of care. I like to be consistent. Maybe this is why facebook told me I was a centrist!

I don't think that Republicans hate Black people anymore than anyone else. I think that Republicans and Democrats as party members have a collective theoretical "political world view" that is more or less conducive (considering the particular policy) to that of a particular individual at any given time. As convenient as it is for marketing and general conversation, any minority group, no matter how large or small, has individual intricate differences that make generalities inaccurate on a minute and meanful scale and ridiculous. I know the issue is way more complicated than George Bush hates Black people (though that statement did make me laugh).

Neither the federal nor state government provide money to fund abortions. Furthermore, the federal and state governments provide money to make abortions more difficult (24 hour "wait" laws; anti-abortion literature). And you can't get late term abortions in many if not most states (the laws are in flux, so I have a hard time keeping up).

Furthermore, abortion is expensive. If you have it before a certain time in Ohio, it is over $500. If you wait, it goes below $400, but not by much. Then it's too late.

And another side of the issue: when looking at adoption and other alternatives, do you have the right to force a woman to keep something inside of her body that she does not want. The fate of the fetus is incidental to this decisions. Once the fetus can survive outside the womb, it is, of course, a different story. But while the fetus, in many a hypothetical, has rights, doesn't the mother?

And choosing to have sex is not the same as choosing to have a child. Let's just end that argument right there. Would you say choosing to have sex is choosing to get an STD? Right...

As for father's rights; to me, they get rights when they carry a child for nine months and endure the physical trauma (having a child, from conception to birth, is the most dangerous time in a woman's life) and social stigma that she does. But wait, that is right. He doesn't. So, I think he should shrink back to that hole he came out of.

What would be helpful is to look at abortion statistics. (AKA use google) For example, far more married women have abortions than I ever imagined (two years ago over 30%). And, it is much more prevelant in certain socio-economic classes (i.e. not poor people).

I know this is controversial, but I can't help but ponder: poor young women are not very likely to get abortions. But one particular political party doesn't wants to help them even though they have their children (without father's for many of them). Then their children grow up, and if they are poor and minorities, they often enter the system. They have police at their schools to haul them away to juvie for a food fight. If they get involved in more serious crimes, which is very possible if they get records when they are 12 for throwing bananas, they are 7 times more likely to get the death penalty for these crimes (and it's not just cold blooded murder). It's amazing really. And that one particular political party takes their children, who they didn't abort because they couldn't afford to, and fries them.

The other party isn't much better because their policies about assistance reward those who don't plan on doing anything more than those who do. But it is interesting how these issues work out, statitstically.