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When I hear older generations talk about Generation Y having to pay their dues, I get a little sick to my stomach. Not because I’m trying so hard to avoid the whole thing (I am), but because I have more important things to develop before worrying about a fat paycheck and a corner office with a view.

Posted On 07.08.08

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Chris
July 14, 2008 2:06 pm

As always, great post, Ry.

To JC's comment, I would suggest "Learning the Ropes" instead of "paying your dues"?

Even though you may start out performing duties that are not appealing, you are continually figuring out what the next steps will be to further develop your career. In other words "Learning the Ropes" within the company and doing what is needed to advance one self.

Tiffany
July 8, 2008 6:34 pm

Great post! There are so many definitions of success and happiness as it applies to each individual but I too feel that it is important to listen to yourself and succeed within yourself. I recently came to the realization that I don't need to be a VP or have a corner office with an 100K salary. It sounds great to tell people but to myself it sounds empty. I would just like to live my life with my family in an environment where everything sort of flows or at least have the ability to bend the rules and make it flow. The growth and development of yourself needs just as much attention as your career, if not more.

J.T. O'Donnell - Career Insights
July 8, 2008 5:01 pm

Hi Ryan,

On the point of 'conquering fears' I agree, so many people hold back for fear of failure. What makes it worse is that many fears of that sort can be removed if a person does their homework. Just exploring and seeking knowledge can help build confidence and shed light that can move you closer to your goal.

As for the term 'paying your dues' I understand, it's a negative term. So, perhaps it's time we come up with a new phrase we could coach the older generations to say that reflects what they are trying to convey with the respect to the value of life experience.

Got any suggestions? :)

Ryan Paugh
July 8, 2008 2:09 pm

Thanks for the comments so far.

I want to point out to GenXpert, Norcross and Ian that I agree with them. A lot can be learned from the traditional connotation of "paying dues." But I believe that the hardest changes facing young people today (probably always) are related to personal development, not career development.

From my experience, it's more important to focus on those aspects development because once you do everything else will fall into place. And maybe that's not true for everyone, but it's been working out for me so far.

jrandom: I think your point brings up the important of having a mentor. That's probably just as important to personal and professional development than anything else.

Amialya: Thanks! That's a wonderful compliment. I'm sure some of the other BC writers would feel the same way.

Hailey: Absolutely! I wouldn't ever be happy if I wasn't able to find peace with who I am. I could be making six figures, but if I wasn't happy with what I was doing, would it be worth it? Nope.

jrandom42
July 8, 2008 1:49 pm

Another part of paying your dues, is learning how much you really don't know and finding people who are willing to teach you. You can learn from your own experience, but it does tend to be prohibitively expensive.

Hailey
July 8, 2008 1:55 pm

I really enjoyed this post. It's so true that if you are at ease with yourself, you can succeed in any situation. Often we look for reassurance outside ourselves (as you mentioned: high salary, loads of friends, etc), but if we are able to be content with ourselves, we will be able to find joy, if not peace, in most all places.

Ian
July 8, 2008 1:33 pm

Great post Ryan, each of the 3 points reminds me of some past experiences.

But don't just be turn off the phase 'paying due', sometimes you might need to hunt for those dues/project/learning opportunities;
such as: doing a part that sucks in high profile project or manage & implement your own small project.

I think core of 'paying due' is to prove to others that we won't screw up on those bigger opportunities.
-----
The book that is refer to in due paying situation is 'The Dip' by Seth Godin,
It helped me decide what rough spots to work though.

Norcross
July 8, 2008 1:07 pm

I somewhat ride the fence on this, given that I did 'pay my dues', then got that window office and fancy title before I turned 30. I think it's important for people to understand that in most situations (outside of the start-up life), there are some dues to be paid, regardless of how smart you are or how groundbreaking your ideas may be. Learn the business, learn the procedures, THEN get going on making improvements.

Amialya
July 8, 2008 12:52 pm

Thank you for writing this Ryan. As someone a couple years out of college who is negotiating adult territory, it is a relief to hear people on Brazen Careerist who are consciously navigating their careers by focusing on authenticity and satisfaction over the traditional corner office aspirations.

GenerationXpert
July 8, 2008 12:19 pm

"Paying your dues" - the traditional concept - is just stupid. You are correct. However, I do think there is something to be said about gaining experience and LEARNING after college.

I'm a regular reader of Brazen Careerist. I see a lot of great bloggers here (like yourself) who are writing about figuring out the maze of being an adult. It's that kind of paying attention that helps you build a strong career foundation,because it's about continually improving.

I have also recently seen a lot of Gen Y bloggers here (not you) being way too "Gen Y rules the world!" without the acknowledgement that they will get better, smarter, savvier as they develop as adults. It's that kind of bravado that brings on the "pay your dues" comments. Unfortunately, the boneheads who should be getting the lectures, because they annoy people too much. It's guys like you, the ones who ARE listening, who DO realize they couldn't possibly have topped out at 25 years old, who people LIKE and want to talk to, who get the lecture. (Kind of like the professors who bitch at the students who showed up because a bunch of people skipped).

Who knows? Maybe Gen Y does rule the world. I live in northern Michigan and telecommute. Nobody is ruling the world here. However, wouldn't it be pathetic if today was the best you were at ruling the world? For the next 40 years, you never got any better and you always knew more than those stupid Xers and Boomers?

So if you look at "paying your dues" as a concept of making your mistakes, learning, getting experience beyond school but in the "real world," it may be more palletable.

Mark W.
July 8, 2008 8:40 pm

I agree with J.T. O'Donnell regarding her assessment of the term "paying your dues". It's meaning in the workplace is normally meant to describe doing tasks such as making copies and doing other mundane things not worthy of a person who has recently graduated from college. I could never understand a business with management that couldn't tap into the ideas and energy a new graduate brings into the workplace. I always wondered why they bothered with a college graduate - why not just hire someone with a high school degree? There will always be some "paying your dues" in any organization and I don't have any problem with that as long as the duties associated with the dues are not demeaning and there are valid reasons for the dues paying that somehow lead to a more satisfying experience in the workplace.

Ryan Paugh
July 8, 2008 10:50 pm

JT: I'm fresh out of ideas...such a cop out, I know.

I think it's kind of like coming up w/ a new name for blogging like we talked about a few months ago. Very difficult when there's already that stapled term for it.

I think it's just about recognizing that there's more to it than photocopies and fetching coffee. The whole portion of life is difficult, but we all have to go through it.

Tiffany: I would like that too. If you ever feel like you've truly found it, please write a post about it.

Mark: I agree. I don't think anyone would mind "paying dues" in a work setting if they knew it would lead to bigger and better things.

jrandom42
July 11, 2008 8:39 pm

Sometimes you gotta pay your dues, because the mistakes caused by inexperience can have devastating and lasting consequences. Management has to know how well you can learn, keep certain issues always in mind, and take direction before entrusting you with certain tasks.

In our machine shop, no one gets to run a lathe before they all go through training, safety checks and drudge work under the eye of the master machinists. Why? Just look at the senior master machinist, who's been doing this for over 40 years and freely admits that he's "made every mistake that can be made". Notice that he's missing an eye, part of his nose and cheek and only has one thumb and five fingers for both hands.

Ryan Paugh
July 11, 2008 8:46 pm

jrandom: You're absolutely right. Even in the corporate world, your actions have lasting consequences on the people you work with, the business and yourself as a professional.

What I'm talking about here is personal development. Sometimes I worry that people my age put all of their focus on their careers and forget about the bigger dues we have to pay. The ones we owe it to ourselves to figure out.

With that said I really appreciate you sharing your perspective on paying dues from an angle that's rarely addressed.

Eileen
July 14, 2008 9:22 pm

I've always been more comfortable alone than in the company of others, but I guess I haven't fully paid that due because I still ask my dad for advice about almost everything.

After college I haven't exactly worked hard, so I could say I haven't paid my dues, but I am sitting in a corner office.

RATTLERMAN
July 15, 2008 4:49 pm

Good info

It seems like alot of people go through the same growing pains. Wouldnt it be something if we all realized we are not much different we just look at things differently. This coming from a 40 yr old ex-"Angry Black Man" who has finally figured some things out about life.

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