I think marriage is just a contract. There are exciting parts of the deal and not so exciting parts of the deal. But ultimately, I think marriage is something people just do. It just happens. Like becoming a cog in a wheel.
Lately, I feel like people left and right are getting married or engaged. In fact, one of my boys (and old roommate) recently got engaged. Congrats again bro.
But is marriage a natural thing?
Are we supposed to be with the same person for the rest of our lives?
The divorce rates are alarming. 50% is the latest number. 1 out of 2 couples are going to wind up marrying their ex-husband/wife. That’s insane and divorce is certainly not something to be taken lightly; especially with kids.
My parents got separated when I was 4 years old and divorced soon after that. I remember being the only kid in my elementary school with divorced parents. But then as I got older it seemed like more and more parents were getting divorced and I was no longer in the minority.
So what is the point of marriage if 1 out of 2 happy couples are choosing to ruin their perfectly good relationship?
Let’s explore:
Social - security: Meaning whenever you’re bored, you always have something to do. But what happens if you’re never bored?
Financial - security: If you marry someone who will be rich, or is rich, or both, you will certainly be rich. A lot of people will do crazy things for money, unfortunately. But what if you have your own money?
Caring - security: You have someone who will do anything in the world for you. Nice. But there are plenty of single people who have friends/family who will do anything in the world for them too and plenty of married people who don’t.
Sexual - security: You always have someone to be intimate with that you hopefully truly care about. That’s cool. Not much I can say about that, however, there are plenty of single people who don’t have to worry about that. And there are plenty of married people who still do.
Children: I’m starting to believe that there is no reason for ‘marriage’ unless you are going to have children together. What’s the difference between a non-married couple living together and a married couple living together?
Nothing! My sister and bro-in-law lived together before they got married. Nothing changed…except my sister’s last name.
So what does marrying someone actually do? Some might argue that it provides security. You always have someone and they just can’t pick up and leave.
Here’s my counter. The type of person that’s living with their significant other and is willing to move out of your apartment and start all over again…is definitely the same type of person who’d divorce you. And why the heck would you want to be with someone if they don’t want to be with you anyway?
I think marriage is just a contract. Like any contract there are pros and cons. There are exciting parts of the deal and not so exciting parts of the deal.
And ultimately, I think marriage is something people just do. It just happens. Like becoming a cog in a wheel.
Except in a nice way.
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I'm in the same boat with Kristina and Kate. My husband and I got married on a snowy day in February a couple years ago after an 8 year courtship. Our reasons were legal and very practical ones:
1. one health insurance bill and one car insurance bill
2. to ensure we could visit each other if one was hospitalized
3. to make each other our legal next of kin (he has adult kids that aren't necessarily fond of me)
_______________________
For us, marriage was the legal protection we needed. We already enjoyed a healthy, loving, committed relationship - we just needed the legal piece in place to ensure we could take care of each other, even after death.
I think marriage means different things to different people and it also means different things at different stages in your life.
There are plenty of arguments that can be made for NOT getting married; we made them nearly daily for eight years. We discussed the pros and cons. We consulted an attorney about the pros and cons. We talked with therapists. A friend pointed out that I'd already made the ultimate commitment - I had his signature tattoo'd on my back. So why not put the icing on the cake? And it was a great excuse for having a really nice party in the middle of winter, too.
Actually, I don't even think kids are a valid reason for marriage. There may be pressure from society to get married if you have children, but it seems to me to be a perceived need, not a real need.
I am 46, have two kids (19 and 14) without hang ups and dependencies or other ills of society and I only got married to their father when I was 40. This was because we moved to a country where he needed a visa to stay and the only way was to get married. The marriage lasted two years (after many years of cohabitation) and then we separated. We haven't bothered getting a legal divorce yet, but we feel divorced, although friends.
I live in the Seychelles, where most people cohabitate, so it's quite common. Switzerland is not a problem for kids if their parents are not legally married either, as I know most of Europe isn't these days. Certainly, my kid didn't suffer from any social stigma.
I would say, it largely depends on where you live, if it is a problem for the kids. But again, it would be the pressure from society and not the fact of non-marriage that would be a problem for kids.
I don't even believe that kids need two parents. There are all kinds of different families in various societies and the kids grow up healthily. It's more about love and communication than following the norms of the society one happens to be living in.
Adam, in your post, you suggest that marrying is unnecessary. You say "congrats bro", but then you kind of diss him by asking the question whether the marriage is natural and whether we are meant to be with the same person for the rest of our lives. Then you list the reasons why people would marry and you dismiss each an every one of them. Then you conclude that marriage is just a contract, people do it just because. That comes off as if you are against marriage.
Maybe the problem is in how your post is written? Otherwise people would not post so much trying to demonstrate to you why marriage is good, why they married, why your list of reasons is incomple, why you sound so cynical.
Wow Adam, your response is really weird. I was just trying to share my feelings.
Calm down.
With the times changing, marriage is no longer always necessary to gain financial stability, have a life long friend, etc., etc., even though all those "perks" are pretty nice once you marry.
People usually move in together to see if they are a good fit. Marriage comes at a different point in life when both parties have found out that they are a good fit.
Say, a couple in love moved in together to see if they are meant to be. After living together for a while, they find out that they are. Your question then is "why go through the paper signing?"
Why not? (if you don't mind me asking). While there is a 50/50 chance of divorcing, there is, I bet, a far greater chance of moving out. Why then move in? There are a lot more relationships falling apart then marriages. Why date then?
This debate has been going on ever since the idea of marriage came along. None of your arguements are new. And the answer to this question is a personal one, not one that will fit or encompass every point of view.
Why get married? I guess part of me is still a romantic sap. I really meant my promise "to love, honor and cherish, forsaking all others, for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and health, till death do we part." Most of it is personal,social and legal. When I got married, it was a visable, legal and personal sign that I was committing my life and myself to this person. That we were tying our fortunes and fates together with legal, social, emotional and spiritual bonds that had significant status to us.
Why do this? Because the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual connection that I share with my wife is the most significant one I have ever had. It formalized us as a team in a way no other kind of committment could. Through the years, we've fought with and for each other, boosted and supported each other, consoled and chewed out each other, as well as laughing, crying, raging, and consuming mass quantities of chocolate together. We've battled through triumph, tragedy, comedy and drama together.
And I can point to her proudly, and say "This is my wife, who is often my better half." Quaint, isn't it? But marriage has stood the test of time, and I can't think of anything better to replace it.
To quote Sarek of Vulcan, when Spock asked why he married his human mother, Sarek simply replied, "It was the logical thing to do."
@Milena - With all do respect what makes your relationship so different from everyone else's?
You know how many millions of men swear to love their girls forever? And how many millions of those same men wind up falling for someone else.
Of course, you're going to defend marriage because that's your life. I don't blame you.
That's like asking me to defend why being an entrepreneur and running MyBodyTutor is the greatest thing ever.
That's why so many unhappy people stay married in unhappy relationships. Their whole life; their entire existence would be false otherwise.
As human beings we rationalize every single thing we do. We have to. The world would be impossible to navigate otherwise...
I'm no expert as I only recently became engaged. I only read a few of the responses. I could go on all day to each of your points, but I will stay in the confines of careers; so Anna does not fret once more ;->.
If your career is important to you, then you have to grow. The 20s are largely spent soaking up real-world knowledge. This is a vital aspect to your development and could be hindered by a marriage. It's important that she (in my case) understands my goals and objectives for my career. I haven't always found that in other women, so I never conjured up dreams of being with them. This one largely shares the same value sets that I do in regards to career.
However, it doesn't have to be career. For one person, it might be religion or for another it may be their favorite college football team.
Communicate well...focus on the person not the timing.
I wrote a post a while back on exactly why marriage is a good idea. Read it if you want.
It is crazy to devote your life to someone. That's a given. But do it anyways - that's what makes life thrilling and worth living. At least I think so. I'll speak for myself: I did not know the meaning of love until I had a ring on my finger. It's not the ring, it's the committment. I'm staring at a man who is swearing to love me forever in front of everyone we know, and I do the same for him. Incredible.
If you ask me, marriage it cannot possibly have anything to do with the above-referenced tax benefits and such; because if it does, its a sham, and then I see every reason for divorce. Then I'd think that person wasn't deserving to be married.
@Anna - Actually, you're wrong. I hate cowards. And I wish you didn't assume I was one.
I'm actually not in a 'relationship' and if I was in one and my girlfriend was pushing for marriage I certainly wouldn't be cowardly enough to drive a point home via my blog.
Also, in my post I never said whether I'm for or against marriage. In fact, I'm a hopeless romantic and all I was hoping to do was make people think. Clearly, my hopes came true.
My main question - like the title says, is does getting married serve any purpose these days.
And all anyone has basically said in my opinion is unconditional love which is nice.
However, that's not enough, as every one always has the best of intentions, i.e., Holly.
Per Holly, 88% of people believe their relationship will last forever. However, only 50% of relationships last.
To me it seems like the reason everyone gets married is just because everyone gets married. Pretty sad.
And if 50% of marriages fail, then does getting married serve any purpose these days besides being an institution for children and religious reasons?
6 or 8 months ago I wrote a post about how young leaders shouldn't get married because it'll destroy all their idealistic world-changing dreams. I don't regret writing it, but boy did I get some grief. Chuck knows what I'm talking about. :)
For anyone who's married, this is a sensitive subject. When you commit yourself to something with all of your heart of course you're going to get pissed off when somebody tells you it's a bunch of BS. But at the same time, if you believe in something that deeply, other people's opinions shouldn't matter anyway.
I'm totally not ready for marriage for a lot of reasons that Adam points out. I doubt I'll feel that way forever, but for now, I'm questioning the point of it all too.
If that makes me an ass, so be it. But I say to each his own. Nice post Adam, thanks for making us all think.
@Jason - very interesting thought experiment.
@Adam Gilbert --
Very, very good point you make there, and yes, it is what we do now.
For me, marriage is a way to make all those feeling public - and validated by society. And yeah, in total non-Gen Y fashion, I do need that validation....plus promising commitment in a legally binding way is a gift I want to give - and receive. I can certainly see how for other couples, NOT asking for marriage is equally as generous. To each their own...:)
Cohabitation is an agreement between two people with very little at stake. Marriage is a social agreement with several stakeholders and plenty at stake. The mutual risk to all parties under marriage encourages selfless behavior, forgiveness, and long-term thinking.
Thought experiment:
Lose your job, undergo crisis of spirit, battle alcoholism.
1. Where's your live-in girlfriend? What are her friends and family advising her to do?
2. Where's your wife? What are her friends and family advising her to do?
This is a bit specious, but I think it illustrates an aspect of marriage that you're undervaluing.
Jason - Very interesting. I think in 1 she'd bail. In 2 she'd be 'forced' to work through it.
Again, to my point, and your point, I believe, why should any of us ever have to feel like we 'have' to stay in a relationship because the barriers to exit are much greater.
@Anne - Why do you need to be married to do all of those things? You can still love and cherish someone and think they are the only one for you and respect them with all of your heart and soul. No?
Isn't that what you do right now?
I'm not married, but my b/f and I are planning to get there - despite coming out of an Army culture (he was enlisted for 3 years) that has one of the most screwy takes on marriage -- affairs abound, spousal abuse and violence is much higher, and the stress of deployments set up couples to fail...
But despite all that, we're getting married - because when he looks at me he thinks, "How could she ever be anything but mine?" and when I see him, I know, "How could he ever be anything but mine?". His character, his attitude, everything about him is so on-the-mark that it's illogical for me NOT to declare my respect for him, promise my love to him, and bless the world with more people like him.
@Monica - If I didn't want to read people's opinions I wouldn't have comments on my blog.
Just because someone states their opinion doesn't mean I have to agree with what is said.
Again, many of the comments are restating reasons that fit into one of the categories I wrote about above.
Gathering from some of the other comments so far it seems as though true love is just something you can't explain. It makes you do crazy things.
But I'm hoping someone can explain it really, really well.
How do you know you are truly in love with a person? How do you feel when you see that person? Does being truly in love make you realize you never were truly in love before (even though you may have thought you were)?
As a non-married person I have this idealistic view of marriage but I'm learning as I get older it's not just kisses, rainbows and butterflies.
Or is it?
I think - and this may sound a bit more pragmatic than I'd like it to - that there are social benefits that aren't financial that come from getting married.
And I'm not just talking about sex or security.
I recognize that there are some cases in which living together is just fine for people. I don't think psychologically, it could work for most people, just as marriage doesn't work for many people.
My concept of marriage is as a team. I like to think of it in particular as a two-person basketball team. The first thing marriage does is define the game: basketball. It says who's on the team, and it makes the priority the team win.
Two people living together in a relationship can have radically different priorities. One person can want to play baseball and the other basketball. One person may focus on scoring, and occasionally they'll get clobbered for not passing.
In a relationship that is about two individuals trying to live together, they may fortuitously occasionally agree about the game and the goal. But more often, they'll be close but a little bit off. Marriage is about deciding to work as a team, for the team win, and not for a personal priority.
This is why we see some relationships that have one person working and the other focusing on the social life - sometimes careers need teams. There's a lot of jobs where you can more up faster if you're married because there's an implication of support - even when both people are working. A team can do better at their two jobs than two people could individually.
I mean, there's love involved too, and all that good stuff about being with your best friend. But the thing that really separates it from living together is the team aspect - it just occurs more often in marriage.
It strikes me that not one person has mentioned the religious aspect.
I can't personally claim to be particularly religious, but some people still believe that marriage is a promise you make to God as well as to each other, and thus has special significance, greater that of cohabitation.
@ Tracy - Joe did
Adam, rent the movie "Little Miss Sunshine". Pay VERY CLOSE attention to EVERYTHING Alan Arkin's character (the grandfather) has to say. if you dont know what im referring to, we can discuss later after i finish my bench presses
Adam, honestly, I don't think you're going to get your answer. Because like I've said, and like I think some of the other married people have also tried to say, you're not going to "get" marriage until you're at that point in your life, if you choose to take that route. Good luck deciding if it's the right choice for you.
@Chuck - So you're saying all of this is for life? I got it. I get it. Makes sense.
But why can't you live with someone and be with someone 'for life' without getting married?
And here's my counter to the 'for life' argument:
The type of person that’s living with their significant other and is willing to move out of your apartment and start all over again…is definitely the same type of person who’d divorce you. And why the heck would you want to be with someone if they don’t want to be with you anyway?
Why would you want someone to stay with you just because they 'have to' because you're married?
@Jayson - Great point. But again, I think living with someone is just as much a barrier to exit as being married is.
It takes a certain type of person to end a relationship in either case. Most people will just settle.
"But this is for life" Chuck argues.
But who wants to settle for life???
I gave that my best effort in the above posts, and I'm not sure you've given it a close reading. The key words are "for life."
Statistics also dont include how many loveless marriages there are out there.
Im getting married as soon as i look out my window and see a pig flying. But best of luck to everyone who has already taken the plunge.
I've been married for almost a year now and I like to think of my marriage as "naked sleepover with my best friend".
But on a serious note, marriage is an opportunity to pick your own family, to choose who you identify as your own. In our pre-married lives, our families are the entities we are born or adopted into. We don't have much say on who we share genetics with.
I think why 50% of marriages fail is because so many of us have this idea that love should be like a Disney movie. In reality, love is an active choice - not a passive response.
Guys-
You are missing the point.
As Penelope basically said, marriage is basically an institution for children.
@Lance - My post is about the reasons people get married. Therefore, I'm naturally going to speak about the benefits. After all, it's for the benefits of marriage that people get married, no?
And besides religion, every other comment is about tax breaks and insurance which fall into the category of financial security. If you have your own money you don't need to worry about those things.
I'm not saying I'm for or against marriage. I'm just wondering what the point of getting married is besides some sort of security which I discussed above???
I think it just happens. It's something people do. But why???
As most of the comments do show, it is but a bureaucratic action. Even as a love contract it is paper oriented. Even as a contract its not really that binding.
It's not natural, it's expected.
Like Kate, I lived with my spouse for a number of years before finally tying the knot. Even the "ceremony" was a non-traditional courthouse deal, done on leap-day of all times just to express the absurdity of having to be official in this day and age. Neither of us believe that marriage is the "right" thing for everyone despite our parents old-fashioned ideas. And a word about marriage being a safe haven for children...well as most of us (statistically speaking) grew up in broken homes I would beg to differ. In fact if you find yourself in a situation where you are getting married just for the kid, think twice. The child will be just as well adjusted with two parents who love each other in separate households than two who stay together even though they hate each other. (And children Do know that is the deal.)
When my husband and I got married nothing changed in our household either, no name changes or changed expectations. In fact really, the only reason we made it official was for the health insurance!
Very interesting post and the comments are very entertaining!
@Former Cynic - Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment.
These comments are so interesting to read...
My husband and I were a couple for ten years before we got married. I think the fact that we stuck together for so long is a good predictor of our future together. We got married mostly for practical reasons: so he could pick up my prescriptions and I could have health benefits. And the tax rebates have been fantastic. Honestly, if MA recognized common law marriages, I think we might have just stayed the way we were. Nothing changed after the wedding; I didn't change my name, there was no sudden expectation that as the woman I would take care of all the housework, etc.
I guess this is a post to all who have, at some point, submitted their own perspective regarding the original question posed in this particular thread:
Marriage by definition is:
1.the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2.the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3.the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.
4.a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage; homosexual marriage.
5.any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song.
6.a formal agreement between two companies or enterprises to combine operations, resources, etc., for mutual benefit; merger.
7.a blending or matching of different elements or components: The new lipstick is a beautiful marriage of fragrance and texture.
8.Cards. a meld of the king and queen of a suit, as in pinochle. Compare ROYAL MARRIAGE.
9.a piece of antique furniture assembled from components of two or more authentic pieces.
10.Obsolete. the formal declaration or contract by which act a man and a woman join in wedlock.
I think we all understand what “marriage” is by definition, but like many other relatively simply words in our English language, it runs through a much deeper corridor through the social framework in our society.
I have personally been married twice, so I speak from a position of experience. Both of my marriages failed for different reasons. However, the failures contained common threads…lack of understand of the true meaning of “love” and the purpose of “marriage”. Clearly, for whatever reasons, marriage is simply not for everyone. Likewise, not everyone will spend eternity in the same place. We are all given choices on a daily basis. Walking with the Lord is very simple…drop dead to yourself and follow Christ. Although simple, it is one the most challenging journeys a person can embark on. You see, you are taking a leap of faith as to whether or nor this person called Jesus Christ ever existed. Moreover, even if he did, was he truly the son of The Most High (God)? Without this leap of faith you can not serve the Lord and quit frankly there is no purpose in marriage outside of the fact that it is a legally binding agreement in the eyes of the law.
Marriage does not come with any guarantees…in fact I submit that it is probably one of the biggest risks known to man. In the early days, marriages in early times were arranged by parents. The parents of the groom chose his wife-to-be. The groom’s parents paid a price for the bride. The groom then gave a gift to the bride as a pledge that he would someday fulfill his promise of marriage. At this point, the bride and groom were “espoused” or “engaged”. It is important to note that espousal was as binding as marriage is today. Any unfaithfulness on the part of the bride or groom was legally viewed as adultery. After a lengthy espousal, the bridegroom would go to the bride’s home to fetch her. The groom would then take her to his father’s house where the wedding feast would take place.
My point in all of this is to illustrate the significance of the “true” meaning of marriage. We (The True Church) are the bride and Jesus Christ is the bridegroom. We were chosen by the God to be wed to his son.
Today we choose our own wives, which is a gift in and of itself. If we view the man/woman we choose to marry in this light (see above) we are sure to hold sacred the true meaning of marriage.
With all of this said, I am cognizant of the fact that marriage is not for everyone, nor is Christianity. However, as Christians, we still pray for those whom don’t believe because all Christians were unbelievers at some point.
For those who regard marriage not simply as a union of two, but a three-way convenant between the man, the woman and a Higher Power, God, or whom/ whatever you preceive Him/Her to be - - marriage is very necessary - - anything else is sinful, abstract, meaningless, etc.
Spouses have more rights than significant others. Why do you think the homosexual community has lobbied so hard to legalize gay marriage? And it goes beyond tax benefits.
Hospitals have "family only" policies for certain cases. If something were to happen to your significant other, you would have no right to their assets, nor to determine anything related to power of attorney.
And so many more reasons that I won't get into.
Not to mention the website you linked regarding the divorce rate has conflicting information.
I think that in most cases, marriage is for the children -- to protect them. To make it more likely that they have two people instead of one involved in bringing them to adulthood.
But there's another thing, too. In many jobs, the demands are too high for someone to both run their business and their social life. So their spouse runs their social life. When there is a divoce, the spouse should get financial reward for having run the social life of someone so he/she could spend their energy earning money. A marriage protects the person focused on building a social life rather than a nest egg.
Penelope
I think it's funny that people talk about the "chance" of getting divorced. I mean, it's not like, I'm just driving along and whoops! I'm divorced! Like having a car accident or something.
Just like there's no chance of me waking up tomorrow with purple hair, but I could decide to dye my hair purple, take the requisite action and have purple hair.
I could decide to get divorced, go see a lawyer and get the process started. My husband and I discussed this at length BEFORE we married and agree: we won't get a divorce. Though I can't imagine it, the day may come when I don't like even looking at him across the table but we won't get a divorce.
I like the idea that we're in this just like the vows say. You might see it as forcing someone to be with you... we see it as following through on our commitment - for better or worse.
The commitment is the purpose unto itself. And when you find the right person it makes sense.
Perhaps one does not have to marry to experience some or many of the benefits of developing as a human being in a committed relationship. But marriage helps. I have had my 32nd wedding anniversary – and I get happier and more fortunate every year of the relationship. Being married helped us, me for sure, get through the tough spots that happen when the inevitable clashes occur. Working through the disagreements and frustrations teaches a lot about life; people who know me will tell you I have grown a lot over the years and certainly the challenges, the joys and rewards of marriage that have helped to bring it about. I am thankful for it.
Being married meant we became a part of something we had not been part of before. We became part of the community of married persons. Many married people we knew had some values in common with us and some openness and or willingness to grow not alone, but together, with someone we thought was special beyond anyone else. Of course, some committed (non-married and even same-gendered couples have been meaningful to us as well – but in the ebb and flow of life, such couples are fewer in our experience). We, as a community of married persons, have support for one another in a variety of places and ways; that support helps us to grow and to continue to learn what love is all about. Thirty-two years ago when I married I thought I knew what love was about; today, I know a lot more about it. Love is giving, and love gives back – not because it is supposed to, not because it is mechanistic or a deal or a contract, but because when you truly give in to love, you grow and you receive.
Could my spouse and I have gotten individually and jointly where we are without being married? Can I hold my breath for two minutes? The marriage helps, and to the point made by several posters above – there is much that you gain from marriage that you cannot know about until it happens for you. It does mean giving up some things, no doubt about it. A successful marriage cannot happen between two persons determined to have life their way. But life, as we get older we find out, is not our way. Life happens. Prepare for it and prepare for the best of it. For me, that preparation and enjoyment comes from love and marriage – it is a wonder of the universe. Did I say, I’m thankful for it?
Okay, well, I read just about all the posts until I got to "Hollywood" and they just seemed to long to read. Sorry.
Adam, it is interesting to see your transition in thought. While you have remained true to you initial article, there is one post that, to me, is quite revealing.
You wrote "Gathering from some of the other comments so far it seems as though true love is just something you can’t explain. It makes you do crazy things.
But I’m hoping someone can explain it really, really well.
How do you know you are truly in love with a person? How do you feel when you see that person? Does being truly in love make you realize you never were truly in love before (even though you may have thought you were)?
As a non-married person I have this idealistic view of marriage but I’m learning as I get older it’s not just kisses, rainbows and butterflies.
Or is it?"
Let me post a former answer that I think it is most significant by Milena Thomas:
"There is something bold and crazy about vowing your life to someone. But it’s equally bold and crazy to face life alone, so…unless you’ve experienced this, it’s hard to understand why people get married."
In attempt to go with this last post and to answer your questions posted above, in my humble opinion, you just know. As a former cynic/child of divorced parents/commitment phobic/wishing I would someday find love/hating and questioning marriage sort of woman, I can now say that I have reached that stage where I want to marry the love of my life.
And it is an experience that only you can answer. Everyone has their own hangups, life experiences, challenges, etc. that no matter how much you ask about marriage, no one can answer but you. If you want to do it, do it, if not don't. But don't sit there and question what is the point? Life is too short.
As Louise said above, many cultures all over the world value marriage. I currently live in Morocco where marriage is highly valued. Marriage marks the union of bringing together two families and publicly acknowledging love.
It is a symptom of the West to perceive the self over the community. We are too individualistic in the West and therefore don't recognize the privilege we have to choose to be common law or never married. In many developing countries, marriage is security, which you cannot get by being single. So having said that, I suppose that the beauty of marriage is something that is practiced all over the world regardless of culture, class, gender, etc. It is was ties us as the human race, in addition, to life, death, birth, children.
And when you have something like that existing where ever you go, one has to acknowledge its power. Sure, marriages fail, but people lose their jobs and no one questions the notion of a job.
Live simply. If it happens to you one day, go for it. Who cares if you divorce. Stop fearing rejection (another symptom of the West). A divorce is a divorce, and a commonlaw partner leaving you is just as hard. The bottom line is: your heart gets broken.
A wise best friend told me once (back when I was a jaded cynic):
"If you love hard, you are willing to hurt hard." And the hurt hard is nowhere near what you feel when you love hard. So go with the love part. Do the marriage if you feel it is right. If you don't, don't. But don't spend a large part of your time questioning the entity of marriage, when no matter what we all tell you, only you can find the answer.
Good luck!!
I married the man I love, after 7 years of dating, 4 years of co-habitating. It wasn't the natural progression of a relationship that aided our decision to marry...we honestly felt no compulsion to get us to the altar, much to our parents' chagrin. We made a spontaneous decision to marry, but one I am still thrilled with 6 years later.
But as a bonus to spending my days with my best friend, marriage conveys financial and legal rights. I get to use the insurance plan of my husband's company, which is crucial, given that I choose to work in the non-profit sector, where health benefits are both sparse and extraordinarily expensive. If I get sick, I know he's there to care for me and help make important decisions. We don't plan on having kids, but the partnership we gain in marriage is well worth any risk involved.
If you don't want to be with that one person forever, and aren't really, truly committed, then yes, marriage really is just a contract. It is more or less a business deal. Which is why most people get pre-nups now.
However, to the person that mentioned tax benefits...um do the math- and I am NO Mathematician but trust me, you get less tax benefit as a married couple come tax time. Its cheaper to co-habbitate. Unless, you are a married couple with children. Only THEN do you get "tax benefits".
@ Eve:
"Married Filing Jointly — You can choose Married Filing Jointly as your filing status if you're married and both you and your spouse agree to file a joint return. With a joint return:
* You report your combined income and deduct your combined allowable expenses.
* Your tax may be lower than your combined tax for the other filing statuses.
* You may qualify for tax benefits that would not apply if you filed separately."
Courtesy of H&R Block's website
I'm a newlywed so perhaps my voice won't have much clout, but I've got to be honest, marriage is fantastic. But it has to be the right person, and I think a lot of people settle before they find the right one or are not committed to the hard work of marriage, so they bolt.
Sure you mentioned a couple fringe benefits, but I concur w/ Jenn S. above you says you get to spend days with your best friend.
There is something bold and crazy about vowing your life to someone. But it's equally bold and crazy to face life alone, so...unless you've experienced this, it's hard to understand why people get married.
Your post is about the reasons people get married yet your post goes into more detail about the benefits of marriage than the reasoning behind it.
I love the extra rights, tax breaks, financial security and baby making ability that marriage gives you. But if one of those is your primary reason for getting married, it is no wonder that divorce rates are high. That alone doesn't sustain a relationship.
If you have a best friend, you are going to be committed to them and fulfill certain obligations. It is the same for a romantic relationship. For my wife and myself, we love each other and the ultimate commitment to each other is a lifetime one. Not because of benefits, duty or guilt but to us, it is the ultimate expression of commitment to each other. It was an action out of respect.
I would hope that most couples wouldn't radically transform after marriage. I think things completely changing after getting married is a warning sign that the relationship wasn't just about commitment, respect and love. I knew my wife was messy at home before we were married. I would be concerned if she suddenly changed to be a cleaning goddess. That isn't sustainable. While she has gotten better, the change has been organic (and mostly out of necessity).
Anyway, that's my view on it.
@ Eve, as someone who done our married taxes for three years with tax software, I have always tried both options (married but filing as single or married and filing jointly), and you never come ahead on filing as single. I would say only in rare circumstances would you see that filing separately be better.
I agree with Lance in that tax breaks, financial security and baby making abilities aren't the only ingredients to a marriage. If they were, then definitely expect a short lived marriage.
the alarming 50% divorce rate is because people get married for the wrong reasons. I totally agree that drastic changes shouldnt occur after marriage. if there was, then theres something wrong.
however fundamentals are very important in any relationship. moral and religious views i think are the cornerstone to any marriage.
Ive been blessed to have parents who just celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary. Grandparents knocked off 60 years of wedded bliss in 2005. Surely their doing something right.
Both couples said their marriages have had more pros than cons. Both stressed they never took their marriages for granted either.
When asked if they ever wanted to just walk away, my fathers response was, "hell yeah". but what kept him going were 2 very important things.
1. To be an example to his kids that the man is the head of the family and has the ultimate task of keeping it together.
2. the vows he said to his wife with God as his witness.
Bottom line is "Marriages are made in Heaven, but their maintenance is done here on earth"
Its never going to be a walk in the park. If it is, then theres something wrong with the marriage.
So what if the rate is 50%. who cares? it shouldnt stop anyone from thinking marriage isnt worth it. we create our own destiny in the same way we create the type of family we want.
sacrifice, understanding, trust. Three simple ingredients that go way beyond the financial perks of marriage.
Any sort of contract these days have a million clauses with people looking for loopholes. If we look at marriage as just another contract, then we have a reason to look for an out.
Instead lets look at it from the point of view that we're spending the rest of our lives with someone who isnt perfect, but who complements us.
Bryan Adams in one of his songs said, "when you can see your unborn children in her eyes, then you know you love a woman." If that isnt enough reason to get married or stay married, i dont know what else is.
"You are missing the point."
I think many would say the same to you, Adam. For many people, marriage is about the opportunity to lovingly serve one person for life, to place them above all others, to be faithful in mind and body to that person, and to share intimacy in all of its many forms in the process with that one person.
All of this, by the way, for better or for worse.
Marriage can be perhaps the most powerful of all platforms for practicing personal growth through daily, authentic selflessness. When you are that close to someone, it's hard to pretend and hide very well for very long. That's part of why so many marriages fail.
As you point out, you can piece together many of the benefits of marriage with extra-marital relationships, but the value of human relationships is often in the totality of shared experiences being unique.
You and your best friend may share an appreciation for women, beer, comedy, business, sports... but that you share ALL of those in common is what makes that relationship more meaningful than the sum of its parts.
If those things make sense and appeal to you, then that's a good reason to get married.
I'm not trying to convince anyone for or against marriage either, but I hope that provides something like an intelligent response to your question.
In the words of Kanye West, "if you ain't no punk, holla we want pre-nup!"
If I ever got married, I think it would be for two reasons:
1. Legal. See above regarding rights, taxes, etc.
2. Affirmation of commitment. I know most people don't respect marriage, but I do, and I would expect my partner to as well. IF I ever got married, it wouldn't be for the wedding... I imagine it would be a spur-of-the-moment, not legally-binding ceremony in India or Bali or something...
In the end, human optimism prevails. Otherwise, why would only 12% of newly married couples believe they might get divorced when faced with that 50% statistic? We all hope to fall to the positive side of the 50%.
@Chuck - What’s the difference between a non-married couple living together and a married couple living together?
Why do you need to be 'married' to do those things?
Who needs tax breaks? All you need is love. Making that vow in front of everyone is the ultimate expression of love, and that's reason enough for me.
I assume you intend "living together" to encompass much more than just living together since you're responding to what I described.
If you're exclusive to each other, sharing finances, committed for life, and in all other ways resemble a marriage other than having been officiated over by a judge or cleric and given a piece of paper, I suppose you don't need to be married to have the benefits I described above.
But in that case, you're talking about having a marriage without ever telling anyone. Not sure why you'd do that.
Why NOT get married in that case unless it was forbidden by law?
Good post, by the way. You are speaking for a lot of people of all ages with your question.
Adam, disclosure: I'm married. I've been following this post all morning, and you're right. I'm missing the point.
I respect your views, but all this post gives me is an insight into how a single (well, not-married) person relates to marriage. Marriage is one of those things where you won't understand it until you're at that point in your life. I would compare it to other life-altering events, like losing an immediate family member, or having a child. That's why your benefits analysis makes no sense to me - it's too logical. Sometimes we as humans do illogical things, and marriage is one of those, especially when all the reasons you listed don't necessarily hold.
Interesting...I find fewer people interested in getting married. And that number seems to get bigger as time passes. Maybe because in our generation, and in the current culture, people feel more comfortable saying they don't ever want to get married? I'm not sure, but in generations past, especially for women, people looked at you sideways if you said you didn't want to get married and raise children.
But I agree with Lance's comments - if you get married for tax benefits and financial security, rather than some of the other things he mentioned, then yes, it's no wonder so many marriages end in divorce.
And yes, a lot of people do get married for the wrong reasons - and sometimes that reason is people feeling like they "had" to ("well, we've been dating for 2 years so....". Doesn't sound like a great way to kick things off to me...
@Chuck & Monica - But still, aside from all of the points I listed above....being that you and your s/o are both financially secure on your own, you have friends and family, etc. what's the point?
I have plenty of friends that are not married yet live with their s/o. They are basically married. What would change if they were married?
Why can't they go through this journey called life together not being married?
Or in different words, what does marriage do that living with someone else doesn't do BESIDES the points I made above?
Adam,
It seems to me that you've dug in your heels and it doesn't matter what anyone says in respond to this post--you find no intrinsic value in the institution of marriage. You seem to be only half-reading the comments and responding with a defiant "so what?".
I'd almost venture to guess that you have a girlfriend who's pushing for marriage and you're using the blogosphere to reinforce your point. Too bad it isn't happening for you.
OK, one more thought. I lived with a significant other for two years. I thought we would get married. He did not. We split (obviously). Living together did not mean the same thing to us.
Marriage makes it pretty clear. Whether or not it sticks, you are (supposed to be) saying, I'm in it for the long haul.
My point in providing the 12% statistics, is that 88% of those people really believe that what they have will last forever. That's why people get married.
I was never comfortable in my live-in relationship. Nothing bound us together. Nothing told me this man was committed to me. Big news: he wasn't.
It's another level of commitment in a relationship. The highest level, however breakable it is.
Adam,
All your points are valid. there isn't perhaps a clear cut answer. why? because as someone mentioned earlier, your reasoning is too logical.
Our parents generation and generations preceeding theirs considered marriage to be a sacred sacrament "where man and woman come together as one". To them, this union of man and woman couldnt be brought about in any other way. If they werent married, then they weren't "obligated" or "commited" to one another.
When all is said and done I think we humans still crave responsibility and commitment from our s/o. And if marriage puts us in that mental framework, then so be it. And if we've been trained into thinking that marriage is the way to accomplish it, then again, so be it.
@Jason
In 1. she'd stick around for a bit then leave telling the guy he was a loser and to stop feeling sorry for himself.
In 2. A commited wife would hold her husbands hand and help him in every possible way. [just read the stories of those who've had to take care of s/o who've battled depression]
She wouldnt be so much as 'forced' to work through it as lifting and taking care of whom she considers her 'other-half'
In the end both parties would look at it as a positive experience where they learned something about each other they maybe never knew existed.
People can do what they want, but when I met my wife, I knew I had found the person who was right for me, so why not get married? That doesn't sound super romantic, but really, I don't understand these people who say marriage is just a piece of paper and then live together for 20 years. To me, that sounds like fear of something--why not just do it? Marriage is the way we declare to the world our commitment to each other. It creates something external to us, so our commitment is not just some internal pledge we both make. It creates a legal and social relationship that has universally understood meaning. We are not constantly defining what our relationship is. It doesn't mean we have to accept stereotypes, but it is a lot easier to decide how we want to be different than to reinvent the whole wheel.
Re kids...of course, I think most people have kids in mind, but we didn't. We didn't decide to have kids until we had been married for 8 years.
Just to point out something about the 12% statistic vs. the 50% actual statistic: Why would someone get married if they thought it would end in divorce? Nobody who marries for love thinks they will get divorced at the end. The 12% statistic should be 0%, except there are people who marry for money or status or family expectations; in other words, not for love.
The reason people get divorced (the 50%) is because expectations are not met. But knowing for sure a marriage will work out would require the ability to predict the future. In reality, we make decisions every day with not enough information, and marriage is yet another one. At some point you have to stop crunching numbers and weighing pros and cons and just take the plunge.
And just to clear the air: the discussion here is not about single people vs. married people.
If this really offended me because I'm married, I could write a post about why being single is pointless and probably use the reverse of these same exact points from the post. But I don't write it because I don't care. And I've noticed that no other married people are writing it either.
The reason RP's article got creamed is because the premise was essentially "You can't be a leader/get ahead if you're married." The response was what you might expect when encountering a bold (and extremely flawed, IMO) argument.
So this article is nothing like that. But some of the negative responses come when people tried to engage in respectful conversation and got dismissed if giving any argument that wasn't quantifiable. It's easy for someone to say "unconditional love" as a bad reason to get married just because they don't understand it. But I would expect more from someone who is trying to encourage thinking.
If you're going to talk about something that involves strong emotions, don't expect to be able to justify everything with numbers. It's like asking someone to give concrete evidence for why they hate Led Zeppelin. At the end of the day, I just don't like their music.
So marriage is a personal decision. But if you're going to write about it, also be willing to listen with an open mind to the people who have actually been through it.
The day you meet your soulmate, getting married and why folks do it will make sense. You won't want to be away from that person ever, it'll be effortless, it'll feel like finding what's been missing (without even knowing, perhaps you were missing it/them), you will be on top of the world. And not just for a few days. I met my husband 9 years ago yesterday and have been on top of the world since then.
Don't let the cyncicm surrounding marriage keep you from experiencing the beauty, joy, and awesomeness of it.
you don't like led zeppelin's music? how?
@ Adam
It really is asking too much to ask someone to explain true love to you. If it were so easy, it wouldn't be the query of so many poets, writers, and artists. It's a question of philosophy, and as with most philosophy, it cannot be quantified or universally agreed-upon.
Although you claim that you are not taking sides on the issue of marriage, merely asking the question, your responses and tone speak different.
And if you're ultimately looking for someone to define true love, you're looking in the wrong place.
You know, this sparked a really interesting convo between my BF and I last night. He's a lawyer and took up the same argument - in this day and age, there is no reason for the institution of marriage.
As a lawyer, he pointed out gay marriages (which I'm amazed no one has mentioned here) and how it takes a lot of planning, but you can obtain everything but the tax priveleges. His argument, which finally made me understand your point, was that as long as you and the person you've chosen as your "life partner" are on the same page, then there's no reason for a marriage contract, outside of society's standards - the dowery (gift registry), the celebration (wedding), etc. Which is, from what I understand, what you arguing - not that the concept of commiting to one person is pointless.
He also pointed out that nearly all societies have some variety of marriage contract, which means that there must be some kind of overarching anthropological/ cultural purpose.
Finally, he said someday he would like to get married. Because it is what you do when you find the person to whom you say, Gosh, you'd make a great person to go through life with. And maybe that's all there is to it - in the end, it's what is done.
And I think it might be a bit disrespectful to our gay/lesbian friends who are unable to marry legally to invalidate their commitment to one another because our society won't recognize their commitment.
I have friends who have been cohabitating with their SO for nearly a decade. For them the difference between what they do and marriage is merely a piece of paper. And I have more friends who have lived with several SO's. Going from relationship to relationship, apartment to apartment. And I have even more friends who have made the commitment to marriage.
For me personally, I knew that I would never get married until I had completed my degree and was on a career path. I also knew that I didn't want to live with someone without a commitment (note: this is not because of religious reasons either). I got engaged after I completed my degree, and because I knew that my husband was one who I wanted to be with, we were married within 2 months.
We've been married nearly 12 years and have built our careers together. We did not get married "to have kids" as neither of us wanted to have kids. We simply chose to make the ultimate commitment to each other.
When you cohabitate and hit a rough patch you can simply leave. When you're married and hit a rough patch (and you will) you fall back on the commitment that you have made and stick it out and fix it (you don't stay because it's harder to leave, you stay because you made the commitment to be there).
I don't care if you choose to get married or not, but I do care when it I'm told that "marriage is a piece of paper". That is simply not true. Marriage is a commitment. The piece of paper is a legal document. There is a big difference.
How about we get rid of the legal piece of paper aspect of marraige altogether? Why should the government "bless" a partnership anyway. If people want the ceremony, so be it, do that within the confines of your chosen faith or non-faith.
Let's get rid of the tax breaks for making a lifestyle choice altogether. Let's end this idiotic debate over government's involvement in defining marriage in all aspects.
I'm gay and in a relationship. It's none of anyone's business how we choose to define that relationship. I have access to my partner's health plan. We have purchased a home together. We have purchased cars together. We have signed documents allowing one another to make critical decisions for the other. The only thing missing is the tax break and the certificate from the courthouse.
Let me be clear, if a man and a woman are able to have a government sanctioned relationship, I want that right also though I would never choose to exercise it. But, I think the better idea is that the government get out of the relationship and marriage business altogether.
@Holly - Really interesting - as far as our gay/lesbian friends. They have fought long and hard to get the same rights married people do (deservingly so). But again, that shouldn't be the reason you marry someone.
You don't need to be married to someone to be committed to them though. If I'm going to be in a relationship, I want to make sure I can be the best boyfriend I can possibly be. Because I want to make sure I'm in the best possible relationship I can possibly be in, otherwise what's the point?
No need for marriage to make for an amazing and committed s/o.
@Kimberly - That's truly awesome. But ultimately does it come down to the person? Personally, I'd never commit to be even in an exclusive relationship with someone if they weren't the type of person to be committed to something.
Why should 'marriage' make it any different?
And if the communication is there, you'd be on the same page at all times anyway.
@ Adam - Did you just do this to stir every one up? 54...well now 55 responses. What's the record on BC? ;->
Firing up my iPod to hear Sublime's "What I Got?"...need some chill music.
[...continued from previous post]
In addition to making the above statement, we are now also bound by MORE RESTRICTIVE laws regarding divorce. People married under a “covenant marriage” cannot be granted a divorce by the state for all the same reasons as a “regular” marriage).
We VALUE marriage and what it means and its importance in raising children and having a strong family, so by making our marriage a Covenant Marriage, we’ve basically made it harder for us to get a divorce, if we were to ever consider that in the future. We do not desire to be a part of that 50% statistic.
Sure, this additional document still doesn’t ‘guarantee’ anything in terms of our marriage lasting forever, but it’s a further commitment that we’ve made to each other to PROMISE (tellingly, a word used only 4 times before in all these postings) that we will make it work, regardless of what hard times we encounter.
As has been said many times in this discussion, those of you that think marriage is for the birds really can’t be sure of that since you haven’t tried it -- but there’s the problem. Marriage cannot, by its very nature, be an “experiment.” You have to go into it knowing there is no turning back. In today’s extremely selfish society where it is felt that “life is too short to not feel amazing as often as possible” it is no surprise that a long-term commitment is hard to come by.
I stumbled across this thread through an MSNBC.com article about job recruiting by various firms and have found myself reading through this whole topic because I’m amazed to see the societal change toward marriage that has occurred so far during my lifetime (I’m 49).
My wife and I have been married 27 years this July (4 kids) and not only did we say our vows and get the “legal document” back then, a few years back we solidified our marriage even more by changing our marriage’s legal status to a “covenant marriage” – something now available in the State of Arizona where we reside. Here’s what that is:
*A Covenant Marriage*
We solemnly declare that marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman who agree to live together as husband and wife for as long as they both live. We have chosen each other carefully and have received premarital counseling on the nature, purposes and responsibilities of marriage. We understand that a covenant marriage is for life. If we experience marital difficulties, we commit ourselves to take all reasonable efforts to preserve our marriage, including marital counseling.
With full knowledge of what this commitment means, we do declare that our marriage will be bound by Arizona law on covenant marriages and we promise to love, honor and care for one another as husband and wife for the rest of our lives.
----------------------------------------
[to be continued in next post...]
@ Christien -
Not at all. I actually run my business MyBodyTutor.com. This is just a hobby.
I am just genuinely fascinated and curious how other people choose to live their life and most importantly why.
But I'm also not going to accept in not so many words 'because it's just something you do' as a legitimate reason.
As far as I know, we all only have one life to live. We all have A LOT at stake in making decisions that will make us the happiest (because ultimately, I feel that's what life is about) and engaging in meaningful and heated debates is a great way to learn from passionate people.
Btw, part of what I do is force people to look inside themselves and figure out WHY they want to be healthy and fit.
Just saying you do or because you want to impress other people or look good on vacation or win over a guy/girl is not a good enough reason in my book.
Ultimately, it has be to be because you want to feel great and amazing...consistently. And that's what I help my clients do. I help them stay consistent with their diet and exercise like no other company in the world.
Which in turn makes them feel amazing (which makes me feel amazing), and after all, life is too short to not feel amazing as often as possible.
And maybe, just maybe, it just feels freakin' amazing to be married for some people.
Ugh, you keep accusing people of not understanding your point and continually asking the question of why. That's why this post has continued to get comments. The question of why has been answered many times over by people. You can choose to accept or not accept the answer but you can't keep going on about people not understanding or answering your question. Here is mine broken out from my previous reply:
For my wife and myself, we love each other and the ultimate commitment to each other is a lifetime one. Not because of benefits, duty or guilt but to us, it is the ultimate expression of commitment to each other.
The "why" in that is that I wanted to express my love and commitment to her. That's all. You think you can express that differently, fine I get that. But it is egotistical and presumptuous to think that your way is the only way. I don't think you have to get married (I don't think anybody is saying that), just that some people choose that. Some people like taking their s/o out to dinner to express their love but we like to go hiking and see new places. Why is going out to dinner such a great thing? I could write a whole post about that. It ends up that you're just chastising or taking people to task people for simply wanting to express themselves differently depending on their circumstances. They don't need a good enough reason to satisfy your demands.
Adam -
At the very top of your blog post is an image of a billboard with a URL of marriageworksusa.com. It just so happens that the answer to your question is on the "research" tab of that very website:
* Married people earn and save more money
* Kids of married parents do better in school
* Married people enjoy better health
* Married people make better parents
* Kids of married parents do better economically
* Kids of married parents are more likely to have long-lasting marriages
* Married people live longer
* Married people have lower rates of substance abuse
* Married people are happier
* Married people spend half as much time in hospitals
* Married people live more stable, secure lives.
* Married people live more active lifestyles.
* Married women experience lower rates of domestic violence.
* Married people have better mental health.
* Boys raised by married parents are less likely to commit crimes.
To me, the evidence is overwhelming that the institution of marriage, which I believe God created, still works and makes sense.
Lance, you took the words out of my mouth...Kudos friend!
Seems like you know how we should all live. Some people have beliefs that lead them to think that marriage is something more than just a contract that makes transfering legal ownership and inheritance easier. Some people may believe that marriage is the appropriate way to have a long term monagamous relationship. It is a sign of commitment, an external display of your internal condition. Why not get married to someone you fully intend to spend the rest of your life with?
@Brent - Not once did I suggest how you should live your life.
Who the hell am I to tell people how to live their life. It's your life.
I would think, it would go without saying, my blog post and my comments are my opinion. I'm certainly not suggesting everyone should not get married.
Again, I never even said I'm for or against marriage. Just want to hear what people have to say as obviously there are different sides of the spectrum and relationships are something we all deal with.
Hi Adam,
"I think marriage is just a contract. Like any contract there are pros and cons. There are exciting parts of the deal and not so exciting parts of the deal." Adding to that statement, it's a contract that you should not never break! It's a pity when people nowadays doesn't value their commitment in marriage anymore.
It's true that they have pros and cons, that's what you have to think before marriage. Afterwards, you have to work it out together! Accepting the pros and the cons together, seek help if necessary.
Robert
Hi Adam,
Your points are well made. Certainly, there is plenty of evidence that marriages can be disappointing. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I believe everyone has a soul mate. People often marry before they have become the person that they were meant to be.
Jessica Bond
Medical Careerist
@ Jessica - Very interesting. And one could argue that's exactly why some marriages fail.
People who don't yet know exactly who they are or what makes them happy or what they want out of life...
At first I thought there was some interest in people's opinions on marriage here. However I've come to realize this discussion is as hackneyed and old as the marriage custom itself.
Here's why:
If person A says, "Marriage is unnatural and is a product of society, customs, and upbringing."
Person B retorts, "Well, but where do those things come from? Generally societal customs and upbringing were decided upon a long time ago based on what works for their particular society. It just so happens, monogamy developed because it's consonant with how humans developed from an evolutionary standpoint."
Person A could still say, "But why are social constructs based on survival from long ago still foisted upon societies who truly don't need them? There is no need for men to provide for women, we are more equal. There is no need to band together for survival, we have grocery stores and restaurants."
Person B could say, "Because they are based on ages of wisdom and generally if something is disadvantageous, it's worked out of the system, like polygamy or murder. While a few societies practice polygamy or perform sacrifices or honor killings, in general what's not good for a society stays out. Marriage has stayed in. It needs no further explanation because the test of time explains enough. It's not as if an alien came down and commanded us to marry. It came about organically, and for whatever multitude of reasons, it stuck."
And then Person A says, "But what about divorce rates...doesn't that prove an overall societal shift?"
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetra. This discussion will never end because of its nature, it's not an arguement that can be won. It's basically like that tragic joke, "Pete and Repeat were walking down the street...Pete fell in a hole, who was left?"
Repeat.
Adam,
This is something my fiance and I have been throwing around for some time now. We both know the statistics and one of us actually comes from a broken home (i.e., one of our parents has now been married 4 different times).
Milena said something earlier that I'd like to echo and add upon - marriage is a social (or religious for some) construct. With it comes some economic benefits, but more importantly, it is recognized in our society as maybe the most serious commitment two people can make to one another. When I discuss this with my glbt friends, that is the reason they state more often than not to fight for marriage rights. Just as the title of "fiance/fiancee" carry more weight in our culture than "boyfriend/girlfriend", so too do "husband/wife."
There is a more formal commitment being made when you promise to spend the rest of your life with someone (whether or not you actually wind up doing it) that commands a certain respect in our society - describe someone as your husband or wife and others will immediately respect your relationship more so than if you described the person instead as your "friend with benefits."
We decided marriage was right for us because it shows us as united front to the dominant (and popular) culture. We're trying to save the world here - it's okay to play the game a little in order to command the respect that will get you in the right places to make the right kind impact with the right people.
Thanks for this discussion. It's always nice when people decide to do something after a thoughtful conversation and because it's right for them, not just because it's what they're "supposed to do."
Monsaroe
@ Louise - Thanks so much for sharing your insights. I think it's really interesting how different countries view marriage and raising children.
"So what does marrying someone actually do? Some might argue that it provides security."
As a divorced guy, I can tell you this: whether you are married or not, have committed or not, believe in "until death do us part," doesn't matter. You will be with the person you are with until the moment when one of you says, "see ya." And when that happens, all the commitment, contract, vows, you name it, are out the window.
Face, folks, there are no guarantees, no security. You can't be "safe" by getting married. Your kids aren't "safe" because you got married. Adam was right: 50% end in divorce.
I'm very happy that my ex and I got divorced. We are great friends. She is a marvelous person. I love her very much. We raise our son jointly and happily. But we reached the end of our relationship, and she had the wisdom to say, "let's end it." She was so right.
Will I get married again? Who knows. But I certainly won't buy into the security myth. I will simply love the next one with all my heart, even after we split up, if we split up. Because you never know. Just love 'em. It's all you can really do. :-)
Excellent post, Adam. I bet the comments keep coming!
@ Tom - Thank you very much for your thoughtful comment. You said something that I was trying to say but couldn't because I've never been married.
"As a divorced guy, I can tell you this: whether you are married or not, have committed or not, believe in “until death do us part,” doesn’t matter. You will be with the person you are with until the moment when one of you says, “see ya.”
I'm actually fond of marriages, even though I'm a bit of a cynic and don't think I'll ever get married (although I'm holding out hope). The big problem I have is with the commercialization of the entire process, and the ceremony/reception in particular. I mean, do we really need to spend $30k+ on these things? How about we find a way to spend $5000, get the same emotional high, and invest the rest of the cash?
I also have this theory that couples get married just so they have their special day and get the VIP treatment. That's self-indulgent and the wrong reason to get married. Obviously, everyone around here is too smart for that type of thing ;)
My reasons for getting married would be two-fold: 1) to make me part of another family, and 2) as the ultimate emotional and spiritual commitment. I also like that weddings serve as a way to bring friends and family together, but that's not why I would get married. The legal and tax stuff I have no interest in. The legal aspect of it in particular I think is ridiculous, because you can fairly easily break the contract, or if you're smart, do a prenup.
If anyone actually gets down this far (MEN in particular), just check out:
www.nomarriage.com
and you'll see why marriage is pointless (unless it's to a non-American woman)
As a woman who has been married for almost 12 years, I can honestly say marriage IS worth it. It takes 2 people to make it work and so many of the above posts sound like a lot of selfish people who don't really understand what marriage is. I would HIGHLY recommend the book "Love and Respect" by Emerson E. Eggrichs, PhD. check out his website:
http://www.loveandrespect.com/content/crazy_cycle.php
Marriage isn't pointless-unless you're only in it for YOU.
How about this:
Marriage is a concept from a monotheistic background and embodies a "task". There are basically two types of marriage. One is based on a mature decision between two grown ups based on conscious commitment and love. They normally last quite well and have goals that they want to create together. I call it the conscious creative path.
The other type is what I would call the "conversion marriage". Something like a n intense roller coaster tool to transform people who are caught up in illusions into mature humans. Here two people come together to work through their "unconscious" in order to reach, at some point, type 1 of marriage. I call it the "composting path" (sometimes it becomes a destructive path, sad enough).
Problem is: most people have no idea that they are caught up in illusions and have therefore engaged in a type 2 marriage, and that they have, rings exchanged, transmuted into a mirror for each other, putting all the unconscious inhibitions, traumas, egoistic illusions and behavioural patterns out for repair. It can take years of struggle to empty the garbage cans and most people quit, especially when they have no idea why on Earth this significant other is behaving so strangely all of a sudden.
If you stick it out, by the time the garbage cans are empty, you will have gained all the qualities that make you a loving, mature, modest and wise human being. But then, people are not used to taking responsibility for their garbage any more, so they rather pay therapists for regular garbage collection and smash the mirror.
Outside of the monotheistic realm, marriage is unknown. Kids are raised in a tribal structure and lovers stay together as long as they enjoy it... They didn't have much garbage to begin with, I guess.
My Opinion:
Tuesday June 17, 2008
Scotland's National Newspaper
96% of women are liars, honest
The Scotsman is Scotland's National Newspaper,
December 9th, 2004
EDWARD BLACK,
NINETEEN out of 20 women admit lying to their partners or husbands, a survey on attitudes to truth and relationships has found.
Eighty-three per cent owned up to telling "big, life-changing lies", with 13 per cent saying they did so frequently.
Half said that if they became pregnant by another man but wanted to stay with their partner, they would lie about the baby' s real father.
Forty-two per cent would lie about contraception in order to get pregnant, no matter the wishes of their partner.
And an alarming 31 per cent said they would not tell a future partner if they had a sexual disease: this rises to 65 per cent among single women.
In the poll of 5,000 women for That' s Life! magazine, 45 per cent said they told "little white lies" most days.
The favorite untruth was "of course you don't look fat", with "these shoes were only 10" in second place.
Jo Checkley, the editor of That' s Life! , said that while many women now lied to avoid hurting their partner' s feelings, covering up the truth about a baby could have far more damaging consequences.
She said: "Modern women just can't stop lying, but they do it to stop hurting other people' s feelings. It could be argued that these little white lies simply make the world go round a little more smoothly.
But to tell a man a baby is his when it' s not, or to deliberately get pregnant when your partner doesn’t want a baby, is playing Russian roulette with other people' s lives."
The National Scruples and Lies Survey 2004 found plenty of untruths were told over the Christmas period.
A total of 78 per cent said they would pass off a second-hand gift as a brand new present, while half have lied about a Christmas card being "lost in the post".
Women will also lie to save people' s feelings, with only 27 per cent saying they would tell a man if he was hopeless in bed (although a third would tell their friends all about it).
Just over half would flatter a man if he asked them about his looks and only 46 per cent would give the "brutal truth".
However, 61 per cent of women would want their partners to be "brutally honest" if they asked them "do I look fat?" or "do you think my best friend' s attractive?"
Elsewhere, 54 per cent admitted stealing sweets or chocolates;
23 per cent would "sneak a bottle or two" home if they were invited to a party by a well-off friend;
49 per cent would "kiss and tell" to the media for 25,000 if they had a one-night stand with a celebrity;
and 38 per cent say they would marry purely for money.
Nearly half said they had faked orgasms and 55 per cent admitted claiming they were tired, had a headache, or felt ill to "get out of lovemaking".
Nineteen per cent of women with a long-term partner said they had cheated on him, while 30 per cent of all women have had an affair with a married man.
Sixty-eight per cent said they did not trust their partner.
As far as trustworthy personalities are concerned, the woman with "the most honest face" was Fern Britton, the This Morning host.
She was followed by the singer Kerry Katona (formerly McFadden), Sharon Osbourne of The X Factor and the Queen.
The "most honest male face" jointly went to Ant and Dec, the presenters of I' m A Celebrity ... Get Me Out Of Here!, with Prince William second.
The results come in the wake of the controversy surrounding David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, and his former lover, the publisher Kimberly Quinn.
They had a child, but she kept details of the affair secret from her husband Stephen, even taking her son to Corfu for a week' s holiday to bond with him this year.
Mr. Quinn accepted his wife' s story, but she had covered up the fact she was accompanied by Mr. Blunkett.
The survey questioned 5,000 women, average age 38, across Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Top ten Porkies:
That' s Life! magazine has carried out its National Scruples and Lies Survey 2004 to find out the top ten lies told by women.
They are:
1. "Of course you don' t look fat!"
2. "These shoes were only 10."
3. "The bus/train was late."
4. "I've got a headache."
5. "I've only had one drink."
6. "That dress looks good on you."
7. "The check' s in the post."
8. "You look ten years younger."
9. "You' re wonderful in bed."
10. "I love you."
My Opinion:
Tuesday June 17, 2008
I'll speak frankly.
Due to the forceful Feminist Occupied America since the 1950's, Men have no more use for women, except for sex.
We can take care of ourselves just fine. We are tired of the constant bitching and whining since the 1950's, and today feminists are still crying foul.
We are tired of being taken advantage of and TAKEN for everything. A man can’t do that to a woman in divorce court, but a woman can. Gezz where is the equality bull.
Feminists,are:
Cunning Unpredictable Negative Trollops.
Women marry expecting to change the guy; while men marry hoping the woman stays the way she is.
Women are manipulative liars.
96% of women lie according to a survey of about 5,000 women.
Hello,
Here is some news or truth about the shame and charade of the Fancy Big Weddings which did not take place prior to the 1900's.
UNIVERSITY OF MINNISODA
A HYPOTHESIS ON:
ORIGIN OF THE MODERN CHRISTIAN WEDDING CEREMONY
Here, stated quite briefly, is a hypothesis about how the format of the modern Christian wedding ceremony - at least the format I've seen in the United States - originated. Around 1984 I spent an entire day in the stacks of the libraries at the University of Illinois-Urbana/Champaign, trying to track down some evidence one way or the other. I came up with nothing, which I find quite puzzling. The U of I library system is the fourth- or fifth-largest in the world, and I would think that this subject would have been of interest to anthropologists, or religious historians, or students of American culture, etc. Maybe I just wasn't looking in the right place. In any case, the hypothesis seems to be both interesting and plausible. I invite whoever reads this to steal my idea and run with it. Just let me know the result when you're done; I'm dying of curiosity. Since this isn't a professional publication, and I shouldn't even be wasting time writing this down, I'm just going to leave it in whatever condensed, clumsy form it comes out in.
The origins are from when marriages were means of uniting two hostile or even warring clans. We could even think of this as trying to resolve a long-standing feud in which several people from each clan have been killed, sheep stolen, barns burned, women carried off, etc. So we seat the groom's clan on one side of the aisle and the bride's clan on the other; if they sat near each other, they'd be likely to fight with each other, maybe even kill each other. The priest comes out first, so that people will be deterred by fear of God from starting anything.
The groom enters first, and even despite the presence of the priest, he is also protected by his best man (and any additional groomsmen): he needs protection in case anybody trying to stop the uniting of the two clans tries to kill him. The bride enters last, protected by her father (or some powerful male from her clan); she needs this protection so that the groom (or, more generally, the other clan) can’t simply abduct her then & there: hold her hostage, hold her as his concubine, and rape her, whatever.
In one Scottish wedding I witnessed, the bride's father carried a very real, very sharp dagger tucked into his socks. I was told this was traditional, and that it continues to this day in Scotland. I am imagining that she is also protected by her numerous bridesmaids, who may not be able to fight well, but they can create enough of a resistance to make abduction problematic. For the same reason of protection, the groom is not allowed to see the bride before the wedding; the danger exists until they are actually married. The bride arrives at the altar, and her father gives her away and sits down. At this point the bride and groom are directly under the eye of the priest.
He marries them off quickly, so that the clans are now formally hitched. They now have a big party at which the new relatives get to mix and bury the hatchet however they can.
I believe that these elements persist today because of (as the sociologist Robert Merton would put it) the latent functions served by this wedding format - the purposes listed above. There is still tension among families, and they still need to unite after the wedding. This format seems to be declining today (and has been for a long time, I believe) as the clan becomes less and less important, and even the extended family, and even the nuclear family. When people live lives so isolated from their family/extended family/clan, there is less and less reason to worry about them fighting, and so on.
Some of the things remaining unexplained: The rehearsal dinner. The bride's family paying for the wedding & feast. The relative inequality of strength between the groomsmen and the bridesmaids. The superstition about the bride wearing something old, new, borrowed, and blue. Whether this was in fact the system back when clans were the major form of social power. How widely this pattern is shared among Christian cultures. (Of course it isn't Christianity per se I'm talking about but rather clan organization.) Whether this has any parallels in other religions/cultures' wedding rituals. Does this go back to Roman times? (I'm sure there are numerous questions I haven't thought of.)
That's all about weddings.
Don Gramke, a former student, sent me this little essay, which he found at www.weddings.co.uk | Info Section | Home. Thanks, Don. Here's the essay, with the British spelling and ... unusual ... capitalization retained:]
When it comes to Weddings, everyone's superstitious. Even if you're the kind of person who walks under ladders on point of principle, or laughs their socks off when friends touch wood, you can bet that, when your wedding day dawns, wild horses couldn't stop you clutching something old and donning something blue. And that's just for starters. We guarantee that you wouldn't dream of seeing your fiancé on the morning of the wedding. And will you expect to be carried across the threshold? Of course you will!
But where do these old traditions come from? Well, some can be traced back to Roman & Anglo Saxon times, some to Victorian rhymes and others to folklore that has been passed down through countless generations. All of them are to do with bestowing good luck and fertility on the happy couple.
There are so many superstitions and traditions associated with Weddings that it is impossible to follow them all. Many have changed over time, while others, thankfully, are very watered-down versions of old customs. The tradition of tying old shoes to the back of the Couple's car, for example, stems from Tudor times when guests would throw shoes at the Bride & Groom, with great luck being bestowed on them if they or their carriage were hit! In Anglo Saxon times the Bride was symbolically struck with a shoe by her Groom to establish his authority. Brides would then throw shoes at their bridesmaids to see who would marry next.
Something Old, Something New, Something Borrowed, Something Blue and a Silver Sixpence in her Shoe
This rhyme originated in Victorian times. 'Something Old' signifies that the Couple's friends will stay with them. In one version of the tradition the 'Something Old' was an old garter, which was given to the bride by a happily married woman so that the new bride would also enjoy a happy marriage. 'Something New' looks to the future for health, happiness and success. 'Something Borrowed' is an opportunity for the Bride's family to give her something as a token of their love (it must be returned to ensure Good Luck), and 'Something Blue' is thought lucky because Blue represents fidelity and constancy. The custom began in ancient Israel where brides wore a blue ribbon in their hair to symbolize their fidelity. A sixpence was placed in the shoe to bring the couple wealth in their married life. Some brides still place a penny in their shoe during the marriage ceremony.
Flower Power
Flowers have always been a big feature at Weddings. The Groom is supposed to wear a flower that appears in the Bridal Bouquet in his buttonhole. This stems from the Medieval tradition of a Knight wearing his Lady's colors, as a declaration
of his love. Each flower has its own meaning and can display a special message. Orange Blossom, for instance, signifies chastity, purity and loveliness, while red chrysanthemum means, " I love you "
The Time & The Place
Sunday used to be the most popular wedding day, as it was the one-day most people were free from work. Puritans in the Seventeenth Century put a stop to this, however, believing it was improper to be festive on the Sabbath.
Today, Saturdays are the busiest, despite the rhyme, "Monday for health, Tuesday for wealth, Wednesday best of all, Thursday for losses, Friday for crosses, Saturday for no luck at all."
As for the time of year, the saying 'Marry in the month of May, and you'll live to rue the day' dates back to Pagan times. May, the start of summer, was dedicated to outdoor orgies (i.e. the summer festival Beltane), hardly the best way to begin married life! Queen Victoria is said to have banned her children from marrying in May, and Nineteenth Century Vicars were rushed off their feet on April 30th because Brides refused to marry during May. The sun has always been associated with sexual stimulation and, therefore future fertility. In Scotland it was traditional for the Bride to 'walk with the sun', proceeding from east to west on the south side of the church and then circling the Church three times 'sun-wise' for good luck.
Married when the year is new, he'll be loving, kind & true.
When February birds do mate, you Wed nor dread your fate.
If you wed when March winds blow, joy and sorrow both you'll know.
Marry in April when you can, Joy for Maiden & for Man.
Marry in the month of May, and you'll surely rue the day.
Marry when June roses grow, over land and sea you'll go.
Those who in July do wed must labor for their daily bread.
Whoever wed in August be many a change is sure to see.
Marry in September's shrine, your living will be rich and fine.
If in October you do marry, love will come but riches tarry.
If you wed in bleak November, only joys will come, remember.
When December snows fall fast, marry and true love will last.
Food for Thought
The Wedding Cake was originally lots of little wheat cakes that were broken over the Bride's head to bestow good luck and fertility. Today's three tier Wedding Cake is based on the unusual shape of the spire of Saint Bride's Church in London. Traditionally the newly-weds should make the first cut to signify sharing their life. Every guest than eats a crumb to ensure good luck. And sleeping with a piece under her pillow is said to make a single woman dream of her future husband. The giving of almond favors is connected with the motto: 'A gift of five almonds represents health, wealth, long life, fertility and happiness' The throwing of confetti, meanwhile is an ancient fertility rite. Handfuls of grain or nuts were traditionally thrown because they are 'life-giving' seeds. In some European countries, eggs are thrown instead.
Get me to the Church
Walking is thought to be the best way of getting to Church, as there's more chance of spotting lucky omens. Seeing a rainbow, having the sun shine on the Bride and meeting a black cat or a chimney sweep are all lucky. Bad omens include seeing a pig, hare or lizard running across the road, or spotting an open grave. Make sure the road is clear of Monks or Nuns too; they foretell barrenness and a life dependant on charity.
Coming home from Church can be equally hazardous. Tradition dictates the new wife must enter her home by the main door and, to avoid bad luck, must never trip or fall - hence the custom that a bride should be carried over the threshold.
Dressing Up
Until the 1900s Brides hardly ever bought a special Wedding Dress, opting for their best outfit instead. Green was always avoided, as it was though to be unlucky. To say a girl 'had a green gown' also implied that she was of loose morals, because her dress would be grass-stained due to rolling around in the fields! Hence 'Marry in Green, ashamed to be seen'. Queen Victoria, who broke the tradition of royals marrying in Silver, made White Dresses popular. Symbolising purity and virginity, white was also thought to ward off evil spirits. Other traditions are that the bride should never make her own dress, that the final stitch should not be completed until she is departing for the Church and that she should never try on the entire outfit before the wedding day. This last was because it was felt dangerous for the Bride to count her chickens. For the same reason, a Bride should never practice signing her new name until it is legally hers, and wedding linen was marked with the Bride's maiden rather than married initials. The tradition of Bridesmaids is evolved from the custom of surrounding the Bride with other richly dressed women, in order to confuse evil spirits.
Married in White, you have chosen right
Married in Grey, you will go far away,
Married in Black, you will wish yourself back,
Married in Red, you will wish yourself dead,
Married in Green, ashamed to be seen,
Married in Blue, you will always be true,
Married in Pearl, you will live in a whirl,
Married in Yellow, ashamed of your fellow,
Married in Brown, you will live in the town,
Married in Pink, your spirit will sink.
Copyright © 2004-6 Regents of the University of Minnesota. All rights reserved.
SHE WANTS A RING
I tell you about those RINGS
Men do not buy any rings for a Woman. It is a gimick that started by De Beers Diamonds in the 1800’s. Keep your money in your pocket. If a woman doesn’t like not getting a promotional gimick (that makes De Beers & others wealthy) after you explain that it is a gimick, then dump her. If she cannot understand your logic and reasoning, that’s a RED FLAG warning for you to run as far away as possible from that woman. Also if she starts crying, she is a child in an adults body and that is a RED FLAG to run, run, run.
Do not ever sucum to a woman’s crying game where she wins. It’s man-ipulation. Do you want to be a man married to a man-ipulator?
Screw the rings. Engagement and Wedding Rings etc are BIG FAT EMOTIONAL LIES TO TAKE YOUR MONEY Friend. Rings are meaningless anyway. Women are greedy, aren’t they?
De Beers Marketing Promotional Campaigns
De Beers (through its sales and marketing arm, the DTC) has been very successful in increasing desire for diamonds. The famous advertising line "A Diamond is Forever" (attempting to discourage diamond owners from putting their older diamonds onto the secondary market, thus limiting competition) was coined in 1947 and the company has created many successful campaigns since then.
One of the most effective of these has been the marketing of diamonds as a symbol of love and commitment and thus the ideal jewel for an engagement or wedding ring.
Some of the campaigns started by De Beers include the "eternity ring" (as a symbol of continuing affection and appreciation), the "trilogy" ring (representing the past, present and future of a relationship) and the "right hand ring" (bought and worn by women as a symbol of independence).
De Beers is also known for its television advertisements featuring silhouettes of people wearing diamonds, to the music of Palladio by Karl Jenkins.
The company spends $150 million per year on advertising.
The Feminist are:
Cunning, Unpredictable, Negative, Trollops
- Hollywood
Well, I think the comments section is testimony enough to the fact that people believe and 'want to believe' in marriage.
Probably each for their own view but no one seems to be taking it down very easily.
I believe in the institution of marriage, like many generations of people before me did. For us Indians, it's more of a social obligation, one which I had no problem in fulfilling when I found the right guy to get hitched to :)
That's all I can say.
Response to Jen -- NO, NO, NO! "Our Puritan ideals" have NOT set us up for failure...it's the fact that we as a society have fallen so far FROM those ideals upon which this great country was founded! Our human selfishness and me, me, me society has trashed those ideals and made them disposable by far too many. You folks need to let go of this conspiracy theory that "the law is made to support these standards" as if the laws make no sense and are put in place by some government with evil intent. You were not alive when those laws went into existence and so you cannot appreciate the climate or the context under which those laws were made.
Like it or not, this country was founded on Christian principles and that includes the institution of marriage as designed by God himself. Now I know this thread was not necessarily discussing marriage in the context of the USA, but since I would assume the vast majority of readers and posters to this blog are Americans, I think it's appropriate that we consider this.
Marriage is an institution planned by God and whether or not you choose to participate is obviously an option -- that's the way He set it up.
I believe that marriage is about servanthoood. Yes, you "serve" your spouse because you love and cherish him/her and hopefully you "serve" the God who makes it all possible by respecting marriage and what a great foundation it is for life on this earth.
Wow Hollywood, you sure don't like women...
Anyway this article is very interesting since I am quite young and engaged. The person that I am with actually makes me a better person and although we can see ourselves being with each other for the rest of our lives, we refuse to give up our personal identities. I am me and he his he and we don't need anything to change. I think that people, especially nowadays, don't understand what marriage means nor plan for anything past the wedding night.
Great article!
I live in a country where there is no divorce.
When a marriage fails, the couple can only resort to annulment (which is a long, tedious and expensive process that not everyone can afford) or to just separate legally or illegally.
So some of my friends with failed marriages cannot hope to marry again.
And yet, despite of it all, I have been invited to attend three weddings in just a month. It makes me wonder too.
Yeah, maybe it simply is the natural thing to do. Or maybe it's the security of having somebody to belong with. It could very well be because of love too.
Whatever it is, marriage is a big decision. We may not expect everybody to marry for the same reason, but I hope we all do decide wisely.
Im 29 and single i never really looked for a husband but now i feel like i want to get married. i cant find a potential husband anywhere! I never used to feel lonely but now i feel it sometimes. i want to have kids and lots but i know because of my age i probably wont have as many as i wanted. Why is it that when i am head of heals for a guy hes not interested, and when a guy is head over heals for me i am not interested? I want to fall in love with someone who is just as in love with me.
I feel like i cant find anyone
@Julie - I have read every single one of these comments. I find them fascinating to read.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment.
-A
I agree. Marriage is one of those things that really doesn't seem very necessary unless you are super religious or having children. If you don't believe you're going to hell for having sex without marriage, there's actually psychological statistics that prove women can be happier without marriage. Unfortunately, those same statistics prove opposite for males. Men are proven to live longer, healthier, and happier lives if they're married. So says the adult development class, I took in college. Interesting stuff.
I think everyone is losing touch with life and what living is about...
I think you rattled of all the selfish reasons for marrige..
What about, Love, Romance, Life commitment?
I'm happily married, why? LOVE!
Getting married was the most romantic day of my life.. Romance IS NOT dead!
Ps- why is this on a careers blog?
Monday July 21, 2008 @ 20:55 hours
Greetings,
Here is vital MARRIAGE data to ponder:
Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition:
Twenty-Six Conclusions from the Social Sciences
Sixteen of the top scholars on family life have re-issued a joint report on the importance of marriage.
First released in 2002, the newly revised edition highlights five new themes in marriage-related research.
Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition: 26 Conclusions from the Social Sciences was produced by a politically diverse and interdisciplinary group of leading family scholars, chaired by W. Bradford Wilcox of the University of Virginia and includes psychologist John Gottman, best selling author of books about marriage and relationships, Linda Waite, coauthor of The Case for Marriage, Norval Glenn and Steven Nock, two of the top family social scientists in the country, William Galston, a Clinton Administration domestic policy advisor, and Judith Wallerstein, author of the national bestseller The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce.
Since 1960, the proportion of children who do not live with their own two parents has risen sharply—from 19.4% to 42.3% in the Nineties. This change has been caused, first, by large increases in divorce, and more recently, by a big jump in single mothers and cohabiting couples who have children but don't marry. For several decades the impact of this dramatic change in family structure has been the subject of vigorous debate among scholars. No longer. These 26 findings are now widely agreed upon.
Five New Themes
In addition to reviewing research on family topics covered in the first edition of the report Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition highlights five new themes in marriage-related research.
1. Even though marriage has lost ground in the minority communities in recent years, marriage has not lost its value in these communities.
2. An emerging line of research indicates that marriage benefits poor Americans, and Americans from disadvantaged backgrounds, even though these Americans are now less likely to get and stay married.
3. Marriage seems to be particularly important in civilizing men, turning their attention away from dangerous, antisocial, or self-centered activities and towards the needs of a family.
4. Beyond its well-known contributions to adult health, marriage influences the biological functioning of adults and children in ways that can have important social consequences.
5. The relationship quality of intimate partners is related to both their marital status and, for married adults, to the degree to which these partners are committed to marriage.
Update Research Findings
Among the research findings summarized by the report are:
About Children
· Parental divorce reduces the likelihood that children will graduate from college, and achieve high-status jobs.
· Children who live with their own two married parents enjoy better physical health, on average, than children in other family forms. The health advantages of married homes remain even after taking into account socioeconomic status.
· Parental divorce approximately doubles the odds that adult children will end up divorced.
About Men
· Married men earn between 10 and 40 percent more than single men with similar education and job histories.
· Married people, especially married men, have longer life expectancies than otherwise similar singles.
· Marriage increases the likelihood fathers will have good relationships with children. Sixty-five percent of young adults whose parents divorced had poor relationships with their fathers (compared to 29% from non-divorced families).
About Women
· Divorce and unmarried childbearing significantly increases poverty rates of both mothers and children. Between one-fifth and one-third of divorcing women end up in poverty as a result of divorce.
· Married mothers have lower rates of depression than single or cohabiting mothers.
· Married women appear to have a lower risk of domestic violence than cohabiting or dating women. Even after controlling for race, age, and education, people who live together are still three times more likely to report violent arguments than married people.
About Society
· Adults who live together but do not marry—cohabiters—are more similar to singles than to married couples in terms of physical health and disability, emotional well being and mental health, as well as assets and earnings. Their children more closely resemble the children of single people than the children of married people.
· Marriage appears to reduce the risk that children and adults will be either perpetrators or victims of crime. Single and divorced women are four to five times more likely to be victims of violent crime in any given year than married women. Boys raised in single-parent homes are about twice as likely (and boys raised in stepfamilies three times as likely) to have committed a crime that leads to incarceration by the time they reach their early thirties, even after controlling for factors such as race, mother's education, neighborhood quality and cognitive ability.
Fundamental Conclusions
The authors conclude with three fundamental conclusions:
1. Marriage is an important social good, associated with an impressively broad array of positive outcomes for children and adults alike.
2. Marriage is an important public good, associated with a range of economic, health, educational, and safety benefits that help local, state, and federal governments serve the common good.
3. The benefits of marriage extend to poor and minority communities, despite the fact that marriage is particularly fragile in these communities.
Hollywood’s Opinion
Monday July 21, 2008 @20:58 hours.
Here is a Newspaper Article concerning WOMEN and a survey questioned 5,000 women
Perhaps Fabricating is Genetic and Environmental that was learnt during the informative first 20 years of Women's Lives.
Enjoy and learn. Ya'll cannot learn until your mindset is objective. Enjoy and learn from the Article below:
Scotland's National Newspaper
96% of women are liars, honest The Scotsman is Scotland's National Newspaper, December 9th, 2004.
By: EDWARD BLACK,
NINETEEN out of 20 women admit lying to their partners or husbands, a survey on attitudes to truth and relationships has found. Eighty-three per cent owned up to telling "big, life-changing lies", with 13 per cent saying they did so frequently. Half said that if they became pregnant by another man but wanted to stay with their partner, they would lie about the baby' s real father.
Forty-two per cent would lie about contraception in order to get pregnant, no matter the wishes of their partner. And an alarming 31 per cent said they would not tell a future partner if they had a sexual disease: this rises to 65 per cent among single women.In the poll of 5,000 women for That' s Life! magazine, 45 per cent said they told "little white lies" most days.
The favorite untruth was "of course you don' t look fat", with "these shoes were only 10" in second place.
Jo Checkley, the editor of That' s Life! , said that while many women now lied to avoid hurting their partner' s feelings, covering up the truth about a baby could have far more damaging consequences. She said: "Modern women just can' t stop lying, but they do it to stop hurting other people' s feelings. It could be argued that these little white lies simply make the world go round a little more smoothly. But to tell a man a baby is his when it' s not, or to deliberately get pregnant when your partner doesn’t' t want a baby, is playing Russian roulette with other people' s lives."
The National Scruples and Lies Survey 2004 found plenty of untruths were told over the Christmas period. A total of 78 per cent said they would pass off a second-hand gift as a brand new present, while half have lied about a Christmas card being "lost in the post".
Women will also lie to save people' s feelings, with only 27 per cent saying they would tell a man if he was hopeless in bed (although a third would tell their friends all about it). Just over half would flatter a man if he asked them about his looks and only 46 per cent would give the "brutal truth".
However, 61 per cent of women would want their partners to be "brutally honest" if they asked them "do I look fat?" or "do you think my best friend' s attractive?" Elsewhere, 54 per cent admitted stealing sweets or chocolates; 23 per cent would "sneak a bottle or two" home if they were invited to a party by a well-off friend; 49 per cent would "kiss and tell" to the media for 25,000 if they had a one-night stand with a celebrity; and 38 per cent say they would marry purely for money.
Nearly half said they had faked orgasms and 55 per cent admitted claiming they were tired, had a headache, or felt ill to "get out of lovemaking".
Nineteen per cent of women with a long-term partner said they had cheated on him, while 30 per cent of all women have had an affair with a married man.
Sixty-eight per cent said they did not trust their partner. As far as trustworthy personalities are concerned, the woman with "the most honest face" was Fern Britton, the This Morning host. She was followed by the singer Kerry Katona (formerly McFadden), Sharon Osbourne of The X Factor and the Queen.
The "most honest male face" jointly went to Ant and Dec, the presenters of I' m A Celebrity ... Get Me Out Of Here!, with Prince William second. The results come in the wake of the controversy surrounding David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, and his former lover, the publisher Kimberly Quinn.
They had a child, but she kept details of the affair secret from her husband Stephen, even taking her son to Corfu for a week' s holiday to bond with him this year. Mr. Quinn accepted his wife' s story, but she had covered up the fact she was accompanied by Mr. Blunkett. •
The survey questioned 5,000 women, average age 38, across Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.Top ten PorkiesThat' s Life! magazine has carried out its National Scruples and Lies Survey 2004 to find out the top ten lies told by women.
They are:
1. "Of course you don' t look fat!" 2. "These shoes were only 10."
3. "The bus/train was late."
4. "I've got a headache."
5. "I've only had one drink."
6. "That dress looks good on you." 7. "The check' s in the post."
8. "You look ten years younger." 9. "You' re wonderful in bed."
10. "I love you."
- Hollywood's Opinion
Brutal Honesty is always the very best Charater quality in a Woman.
Hollywood's Opinion
Monday July 21, 2008
There are numerous facits that need to be known by every adult seeking Marraiage these days. Denying this leaves people empty of the knowledge needed in order to facilate a Life Long Marriage.
Some knowledge is medical and physiological. Knowing the internal workings of your husband or wife is closeness, which creates the required Bonding of Two into one individual mindset.
Put your thinking caps on please and thank you.
Concentration is signifcant
for the following research:
By Louann Brizendine, M.D.
and Charles Hirshberg, Men's Health.
This research delves into a micro point of view.
Enjoy this Research, thanks.
Monday July 21, 2008
Her Eyes Say Maybe, But Her Brain Says ...
How to tap into that connection to find out what she wants.
By Louann Brizendine, M.D. and Charles Hirshberg, Men's Health
http://men.msn.com/articlemh.aspx?cp-documentid=4849027
I know it sounds trippy, but it's true, and if you want to understand the mysteries of the female brain, you need to accept it. Throughout the first 2 months of pregnancy, every embryonic brain is wired for girlhood. If that embryo has female genes, its brain will continue to develop with little interruption. But in a case like yours, all hell breaks loose in the third month, as a pair of extremely tiny testicles begins to send squirts of testosterone through your developing body.
As the hormone enters the nascent brain, it will arrest development in certain regions and stimulate growth in others notably, the ones that govern your sexual appetite.
That's just the beginning, for after you're born, the sex cabinets in your male brain just keep expanding. Indeed, the portion of your hypothalamus that governs sexual pursuit will grow larger and stronger until you reach adulthood. Scientists are unsure of its exact size in humans, but in other mammals, it's known to be as much as seven times larger in males than in females. It has been estimated that the sex circuits in a typical man's brain light up once a minute much more often than a woman's.
Scary isn’t it.
Don't worry, I'm here to help. I'm a professor of psychiatry at the University of California at San Francisco, and for years I've had this fantasy: I'm in a classroom that's stuffed to the rafters with men, all of them listening attentively to my seminar on the female brain. They have good reason to listen and so do you. You've probably heard it said that the most important sexual organ in a woman's body is her brain. It's not just a cliché. It's a biological fact. And after spending 2 decades counseling thousands of couples about their intimate lives, I know that the average man doesn't know jack about the female brain.
But what if you did know something about what goes on in that mysterious organ? Can you imagine the misunderstandings you might avoid and the rewards that might come your way? Here's the best part: I predict that the woman in your life will see as many benefits from these revelations as you do not only in her sex life, but in all your mutual attempts to build bridges across the gender gap.
Lesson 1: Love's Stop Sign
A woman's brain is, in fact, roughly 10 percent smaller than a man's. But it turns out that in brains, as in so many things, size doesn't always matter. Women's brains contain the same number of neurons as men's; they're just packaged together more firmly and tightly, like breasts in a bustier, you might say. And in a few unique areas particularly those involving love, sex, and child rearing the differences are as significant as those that distinguish our bodies. Every brain is intricately hardwired to satisfy the reproductive needs of its sex. And, at times, the differences in our wiring can cause some pretty spectacular collisions.
You know the kinds of collisions I mean the ones that, unfortunately, always seem to happen when the big-date preliminaries are over, and you're alone with the woman of your dreams. At first, everything goes beautifully: You find a private, intimate spot. The two of you commence smooching. You kiss her lightly behind the ear, and she giggles with appreciation.
After a few minutes of that, your hands glide softly across her shoulders and massage that magnificent, polished skin beneath her shirt. She coos, and your wandering hands encounter no resistance. Finally, the tiny third-base coach in your brain starts waving you frantically toward home plate, and of course you obey he's the coach. Your eager paw steals down the third-base line, cheating into foul territory.
"Stop right there," she growls. You'rrrrrre OUT!!
Now all you can do is stare at her like some big-eyed, drooling dog that's been caught trying to steal a pork chop off a kitchen counter. You feel like the loneliest man on Earth. .And yet, you're not alone. Such disasters are as old as dating itself, and almost as common. All too frequently, they're caused by the differing biological underpinnings in our brains. And the better you understand those differences, the better she'll welcome the touch of your south-sliding hand.
One such difference begins with a network of cells that starts at the base of your brain and runs all the way down your spine until it reaches your genitals, stimulating your sexual response. Now, you might suppose this job would require a huge number of cells millions, even. Actually, it takes only three, each of them as long as your spine and microscopic in diameter. Remarkable? Not so much, when you consider that a woman's nervous system accomplishes the task with just one neuron. To put it another way, your sex circuits are three times fatter than hers.
In fact, nearly every difference in the brains of males and females affects love and sex in one way or another. Her anterior cingulate cortex (or ACC) a region involved in fretting over options, including whether or not she should risk going up to your apartment is, predictably, larger than yours. Her prefrontal cortex essentially the brain's nanny, which tries to prevent her from making a fool of herself is larger than yours, too. So is her hippocampus, which preserves in her memory all those minute details of romantic events that you catch hell for forgetting.
As a result of the unique requirements of pregnancy and nursing, women have evolved to consent to sex mainly with mates who are likely to be devoted to them and their children. Males, on the other hand, evolved to regard sex as pretty much all upside, regardless of the mom-worthiness of their partners. This contrast in our evolutionary goals, etched deep in our brains, continues to cause no end to conflict between the sexes. The old cliché that men are animals is certainly true. But women are animals, too. It's just that a woman's animal nature expresses itself differently than a man's, because of differences in their brains. And your best bet for success is to bear that in mind.
Lesson 2: The Tickle In Her Tummy
Once upon a time, a white-hot, deliciously nubile, very young actress told a reporter that kissing her boyfriend gave her "a tickle in [her] tummy." A snarky men's magazine made this memorable reply: "That's not your tummy, dear..."
Well, that just shows how little most men know about women.
Let's get back to that date of yours the woman who stopped you dead in the base paths. When dinner began, you weren't sure where you stood with her. Then, somewhere between the Caesar salad and the steak au poivre, your eyes locked and sparks flew. Here's why: Her eyes sent a vision of your adorable self zipping down a superhighway called the lateral geniculate nucleus, or LGN, all the way to her primary visual cortex. Immediately, her cerebral cortex which takes up the entire top floor of the brain and is responsible for most of our logical calculations began a lightning-fast analysis.
Congratulations! The cortex registered you as a hunk, so her amygdala lit up like a firecracker. Her hypothalamus ordered her testosterone spigots to open up, triggering sexual arousal often described by women as "rolling in my stomach." (Or for the nubile actress, "a tickle in my tummy.") A woman's need to quickly evaluate this rumbling in her gut (caused by sloshing blood in the lower abdomen) might be one reason the insula, where "gut reactions" are processed, is both larger and more active in women. You might say that her brain is looking for reasons not to select you as a mate. The testosterone and dopamine that washed over her brain when she recognized your hunkishness will, for a short time at least, inhibit the sadder-but-wiser parts of her brain that weigh and worry about risks.
From here on out, your job, essentially, is not to blow it.
Before we cover the many ways you might blow it, though, we can concentrate on what leads a skeptical female to make a gut reaction in your favor. Her state of attraction which so often seems to occur by accident, or even by magic is mostly a matter of biology.
David M. Buss, Ph.D., a professor of psychology at the University of Texas and the author of The Evolution of Desire, has amassed an extraordinary trove of data on the mating preferences of thousands of people from a wide variety of cultures. His findings, and those of many other researchers, leave little doubt that many of the qualities that attract a woman to a mate are hardwired into the brain. For instance, women throughout the world almost always prefer men who are older (by 3-1/2 years, on average) and taller (by an average of 4 inches). And though they might not admit it, or even consciously realize it, most women are more interested in the size of a man's wallet, and his reputation, than in any part of his body.
But these factors are far less important than the evolutionary logic that underlies them. It's a safe bet that a woman doesn't admire a man's money as much as his willingness to use it on her behalf. Think of a male bird impressing a female by building her a nest; that's the sort of signal you want to send, and sometimes you can do it just by cheerfully picking up the dinner tab. By the same logic, it is maturity, particularly in the area of commitment, that she's usually looking for, not a man who's had more birthdays than she. Much of the basic definition of handsomeness, too, is hardwired into the female brain. Studies of both sexes have shown the importance of symmetry in the facial features; symmetry in the body; and symmetry in clothing as well as in grooming.
Pay attention, men. Few women, of any culture, will date a man with uneven sideburns.
Lesson 3: Your Friend, Oxytocin
As Sigmund Freud lay on his deathbed, he is said to have murmured a famous question that every man ought to ask (preferably before he's nearly dead): "Women what do they want?"
Sexually speaking, the answer is, they want you to slow down!
Think about your trembling hand moving toward paradise. That, my too-eager friend, is where you blew it. Blame her amygdala the same amygdala that screamed to her hypothalamus that you were a hunk. It's screaming a cautionary message now, schooled by millions of years of natural selection. It's warning her ACC that a quick decision must be made about your groping hand and that the wrong decision could have disastrous consequences. So the female brain sends visceral instructions to the female mouth, which issues this visceral response: "STOP!"
The point, gentlemen: You're not likely to make progress with a lady until you lower the voltage in her amygdala and sweet-talk her ACC into concluding that you are safe. And that takes time.
Like most of our instinctual behaviors, sex is controlled by the autonomic nervous system (ANS). This intricate network of neurons is divided into distinct divisions, the busiest being the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, each wired to produce vastly different, and in many cases opposite, behaviors. For instance, if you opened the drawer of your desk and a hissing cobra popped out, your sympathetic nervous system would make your heart beat like crazy and kickstart your adrenaline pumps. But you would have very little appetite for food and even less for sex.
That's because sexual arousal is under the exclusive control of the parasympathetic nervous system, which also controls everything related to the enjoyment of food and the digestion of it. Imagine yourself, after a delicious dinner, settling down by the fireside with a glass of wine while a beautiful woman snuggles up next to you. It's your parasympathetic nervous system that's in overdrive now. Your heart beats in a slow, relaxed rhythm, you feel content, secure... and ready for love.
Now you can begin to see why a wrong move on your part can so completely spoil the mood. Caress her, compliment her, and relax her, and you'll turn up her parasympathetic nervous system; she'll smile, she'll smooch, she might even coo. Parasympathetic impulses from her brain and elsewhere are prompting the release of a wicked cocktail of ligands (hormones and other chemicals that carry messages through the body) directly into her sex organs. This cocktail stimulates the release of vaginal lubricants and opens blood vessels in the labia and vagina, causing them to swell.
All systems are go!
But then you do something stupid, like force the issue. In that case, you will ignite her amygdala, agitate her ACC, and rouse her sympathetic nervous system which means her parasympathetic nervous system goes off-line. At that point, it is biologically impossible for her to become sexually aroused. Once the mood is broken, you're going to have to work extra hard to bring her back. It can be done, provided you learn to coax a particular ligand oxytocin into working its magic on her brain. Love, desire, and sexual fulfillment are stimulated by ligands, and though our scientific understanding of their processes is still in its infancy, the little we do know is extremely useful. For instance, men have far more of a ligand called vasopressin, which gives men a laser focus on the object of their love. Studies on animals show that a male's level of vasopressin rises sharply during sex.
Another ligand that increases during sex: oxytocin. Along with estrogen, oxytocin in women plays much the same role in forming attachments as vasopressin plays in men. But the feelings it creates are quite different. Vasopressin tends to produce sensations of longing. Oxytocin, by contrast, produces a feeling of well-being, a desire to nurture, and a sense of trust. So an excellent way to soothe a woman's ACC and turn up her parasympathetic nervous system is to raise her levels of oxytocin.
How do you do that? With a nice long hug, for starters. Studies have found that a hug from a partner will produce an oxytocin rush in a woman's brain but only if that hug lasts 20 seconds or more. And just about everything that falls under the general heading of "foreplay" is likely to produce a similar effect provided she's into you and you do it long enough. The effects of oxytocin can be incredibly disarming to a woman. Female animals injected with the stuff seem to throw caution to the wind and cuddle up with the first available male. And that is why, when women ask me for advice about men, I warn them, "Don't hug the guy unless you plan to trust him."
Lesson 4: Love and Ecstasy
Not much is known about what makes female orgasms happen, at least from a neurological perspective. We do know that an orgasm is essentially a conversation between the clitoris and the nervous system, and that it occurs when a rush of feel-good chemicals washes over the brain. We also know or think we do something about what can make a female orgasm elusive. Just as the sympathetic nervous system must be turned way down before a woman can become sexually aroused, it must be turned back up before she can climax. Only the sympathetic nervous system can achieve the powerful muscular contractions that accompany orgasm, drawing sperm into the cervix and increasing the chance of conception.
If the amygdala must be quieted for sexual arousal, it must be switched off entirely to allow the complex neurological maneuvers that make climaxing possible. Anything that spoils a woman's concentration at this crucial juncture bad breath, ill-timed drool, a noise may stir the amygdala and that old worrywart the ACC, and make orgasm impossible. But in the quest for climax, the two of you can recruit at least one powerful ally: love. A dose of that can be as powerful as a hit of Ecstasy. Really.
Most drugs produce highs by hijacking portions of the brain's reward system. But Ecstasy in particular quiets both the amygdala's ability to alert us to clear and present danger and the ACC's skepticism about risks in general. Frequently, the result of both Ecstasy and love is a person heedless of the potential consequences of his or her actions the very definition of a fool. The upside for you, of course, is that a fool in love is likely to overlook many of your blemishes when you're in the sack. This is not to suggest that if she loves you, she'll climax. But it does help explain why so much of the world's best sex is experienced by people in the pink-and-flush of newfound love.
Appropriately, a complex emotion like love requires a complex mixture of ligands to bring it off in the brain, and oxytocin, dopamine, and testosterone are just a few of those involved. Scientists are continually finding new ligands. One recent discovery is particularly worthy of note, since it shows not only where the joys of infatuation come from, but also why they die down. Nerve growth factor is better known as "the love molecule." Enzo Emanuele, M.D., of the University of Pavia, in Italy, discovered that couples who have been in love for a year or two have substantially more nerve growth factor than lonely hearts do. But he also found that in couples who've been in love for longer than 2 years, levels of this love molecule are no higher than in people who are not in love at all.
Lesson 5: Love Me, Love My Brain
It's never a happy moment when a young couple discovers that the exhilarating dopamine-powered sexual chemistry of early romance is a temporary phenomenon. But it often cheers them up when I explain that the declining amplitude in their sex lives is perfectly normal and need not spell the end of a relationship. The most happily married couple you know may love each other as much as they ever have, but they probably don't love each other in quite the same way as they did in the beginning.
The warmth and contentment of long-term love has clear biological differences from the jungle fire of romance. It is fed, in large measure, by surge upon surge of oxytocin, produced by the long stretches of routine physical closeness that happy couples take for granted. Anything that brings the two of you together reading on the couch with her legs stretched across your knees, or watching TV with your heads resting together can produce a splash of the stuff.
But "staying close" is no simple task. I often think of one couple who came to see me in hopes of saving their marriage. The woman let's call her Jane had virtually stopped having sex with her husband, whom we'll call Evan. They had both begun new jobs, and the hot wires that connected them had gradually gone cold. Jane never felt in the mood. Evan suspected she had a lover. Jane was thunderstruck. How could Evan imagine such a thing?
"Never in the mood" is one of the most common complaints women bring to my office, and one of the easiest to fix. It's simply what happens when male and female brains miss the point with one another. It was natural for Evan, with his male brain bleating for sex once a minute, to assume that his wife had similar appetites that were being satisfied elsewhere. Jane had no idea that to the male brain, sex is as essential to a relationship as talking is. We hashed this all out, they went home, then we all met in my office a week or two later. Their sex life was as hot as ever. But they no longer called it "sex" they called it "male communication."
And that is what I wish for you and the woman of your dreams plenty of male communication.
7 Steps to the Bedroom
1. It starts when her eyes send your picture shooting down an information
highway called the lateral geniculate nucleus, or LGN, all the way to her primary visual cortex, located in the back of her brain.
2. Then her cerebral cortex the part of the brain responsible for logical decisions rates your potential as a mate.
3. If her cerebral cortex likes what it sees...
4. ...it sends a signal to her fiery amygdala, which, in turn, shouts the good news to...
5. ...her hypothalamus. This hormonal air-traffic controller then sets off a release of testosterone that...
6. ...washes over her brain's worry center, the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), signaling it to relax and let her enjoy herself.
7. Bingo! Sexual attraction! As her brain celebrates this good news, her hypothalamus is set to "ready," preparing her for sex—blood begins sloshing around in her abdomen, ready to prime her vagina. But if you try to move too quickly, her amygdala will shout a warning to her ACC, and you'll wind up sleeping by yourself.
http://men.msn.com/articlemh.aspx?cp-documentid=4849027
Respectfully yours- Hollywood's Opinion
This is “MY OPINION” I wrote IN JUNE AND IS RELAVENT TO THE SUBJECT OF WHETHER OR NOT TO MARRY TODAY.
Saturday June 28, 2008 @ 22:20 hours
Hollywood’s Opinion
The Fallout of Feminatzism
On Our Civilization
Greetings to all Friend or Foe,
How does a man using his wife's surname as a pose to the 5,000 year old history of love and marriage where the wife has always been a LADY (not a Feminatzi) and accepted in love her husband's last name, bring LIBERTY, FREEDOM and JUSTICE to the Feminatzies of 2008?
If any person had a type of vehicle (The Fine Institution of Marriage) that has lasted over 5,000 years and it continued operating to the benefit of the family, society and civilization, then why would Feminatzies want to throw a wrench into the already working Fine Institution of Marriage?
Don't FIX something that is already WORKING FINE!
Feminatzies do not BENEFIT Children’s LIVES. Feminatzies especially over the last 50 years has devastated and corrupted the Couples, the Families and the children, namely Feminatzies have been pushing their war or hidden agenda to destroy civilization.
You don't believe me, of course not, I didn't provide evidence.
IF you would use some time to research the Australian Government Homepage you can find out that the Government recognized "THE FALLOUT OF FEMINISM" on the entire Country and the damage it had caused for over 50 years there. Specialized counselors had to be taught to manage men, fathers and children who were damaged goods from the notion of women's liberation. The Australian Government setup a Special department for MEN only who had been suffering years of the fallout of Feminatzies.
The Australian Government has an On-Going Project to reinforce lifetime marriage commitments and is continually researching the maintenance of marriage.
Feminatzies and their own selfish hidden agenda has been exposed, but few if any journalists have the Testicular-Fortitude to produce this exposed information in the MEDIA REGULARLY, due to FEAR OF THE FEMINATZIES clout and loss of life.
1. Feminatzies- Tore Off Their Bras and burned them as symbolic of their "SEXUAL FREEDOM', which made them behave as impractical uncouth Trollops, and further more the Feminatzies bra blazing was symbolic of their “FEELINGS OF SELF-ENTITLEMENT TO PROMISCUITY” without guilt or concern coming from their Concocted False-Notion of "REMARKABLE ADVANCED PROMISCUITY’ they felt.
2. Feminatzies- Became sexually aggressive in relationships, and also became sexually aggressive in un-countable “ONE-NIGHT-STANDS.”
3. Feminatzies -Promiscuity plunged them into numerous Sexually Transmitted Diseases.
4. Feminatzies- Promiscuity lead to the psychological-inability to have a long-term relationship or to be married for life anymore.
5. Feminatzies- Promiscuity most assuredly resulted in an over-whelming abundance of Pregnancies.
6. Feminatzies- Promiscuity of Pregnancies led to a New Law providing Abortions, the unwarranted right to Kill and Dismember with Vacuum Cleaner effective surgery the un-birthed children growing inside the wombs of their bodies.
7. Feminatzies- Promiscuity today has resulted in the “Morning After Pill” being available on the store shelves now, as though the “Morning After Pill” is merely a Laxative (for Murder).
8. Feminatzies- Years later decided to have Children and held them with love found; Guilt, Shame, Sadness, Depression and many periods of Crying Out Their Hearts, as they remembered the countless abortions/murders they committed while holding their children. How very, very deeply saddening for the DEAR DEAD DARLING BABIES, but for the Feminatzies no sympathy, no empathy and no returning to change the past for being Absolutely Wicked Brutal Butcher Bitches.
9. Feminatzies- In the work force has left many generations of children to grow up on their own because the stability and continuity of the Mother Figure decided $$$ MONEY $$$ were more important than raising children as part of our Society.
10. Feminatzies- It’s their World right now. When the Feminatzies have F—ked up this world enough, they’ll want and demand we Gentlemen and Ladies Take Back what was Righteously Ours and We Will Never, I mean Never Let The Feminatzies Rule Over Us Again.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls the Life-Long 5,000 year old ever-always- working “Institution of Marriage” is on it’s way back very soon.
Feminism is dead and finished.
Feminism should have stayed in the Workplace for Opportunities and the Equal Wage aspect and Not brought into Family Homes.
Long long long ago, about 40- 50 years ago women didn’t appreciate their husbands bringing their Work Attitude into the Home Environment. I thought men weren’t suppose to bring their work attitude to cause disruptions in the home, but of course it’s just alright for the Feminatzies because they “Feel” and do not “think or reason why,” not to bring Feminists-Work-Attitudes into the Family Home. A Feminatzies purpose is to Take the Top Position at work, and to TAKE the Pinnacle Position in the Family Home. Remember there is only One Captain on an Airplane with a Co-Pilot. There is no mutiny by the Co-Pilot to TAKE the Pinnacle Position of Captain, just an Understanding of Co-Operation between the two to maintain a safe, happy and healthy environment.
Respectfully submitted- Hollywood’s Opinion
I apologize in advance for all Grammatical Miscalculations.
Hollywood’s Opinion
Monday July 21, 2008 @ 23:15 hours
Greetings to you,
What has destroyed married life in the last 50 years?
I content that MEN have no other use for Women today except for non-intimate Intercourse.
I contend that women have been brain washed during their first 20 years of life by a society that has had
Full-Blown-Feminatzism with it’s foundation being that Men are merely an OPTION in life and that they would be much better off financially without a Husband.
Please provide WHO and WHEN it was decided that Men are insignificant and that Husbands are to be looked upon as an Object, as though Men are things?
They have put men into a box and labeled it “A Husband is An Option.”
The car salesman said which OPTION do you want on this (OBJECT) vehicle?
See what Feminatzies have done to destroy couples, families, children, societies and possibly eroding Civilization?
When it comes to marriage today Men don’t marry because for one thing, they are viewed as an OPTION for Women to wear or not to wear. For the Feminatzies, Husbands are like old out of style fashions and can be thrown out any time after all We Men are mere OBJECTS to be Used and Discarded into the trash.
To Men I say, “Caveat Emptor” which is Latin for “Buyer Beware.”
Usually “Caveat Emptor” is applied to the purchase of a home, because you want to know as much as you can before you make one of the most important FINACIAL decisions of your lives Men.
Even so I say to Men, “Caveat Emptor” when it comes to marrying a Woman because it is the most important FINANCIAL decision you will ever make.
I am frank and brutally honest, and I do not apologize for my personality.
I do apologize for any grammatical miscalculations made.
Respectfully submitted-
Hollywood’s Opinion
I agree that marriage is a lot about rights; but it's also about our society. we still give some strange stamp of approval for those who live under the semblance of monogamy, whereas in many other cultures marriage is still popular, but there is little suggestion to say that it means monogamy forever or that people will fit into the white picket fence, 2.5 kids model. Our puritan ideals often set us up for failure in our relationships, and the law is made to support these standards which may be ultimately flawed.
Wait, when did God sit down and design marriage? Did he come up with it on the 8th day or something? Apparently it took a while for the message to get here before marriage became a social convention.
Also-
" You were not alive when those laws went into existence and so you cannot appreciate the climate or the context under which those laws were made." - but you were, Kevin? What gives you this deep and intimate knowledge of the formation of these laws?
Andy -
Actually, you're not far off on that "8th day of creation" idea. If you read the Biblical account, the 7th day of creation was documented in Genesis 2:2 and marriage was defined just a few verses later in Genesis 2:24 where God says, "... a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh." I challenge you to find an earlier reference to the concept of marriage than that!
As for when it became a "social convention," I submit that since marriage is part of the foundation of this world and God's creation, it really sells marriage short to call it simply a convention (which is really the point of this whole discussion thread).
I truly understand that if you don't believe the Bible as truth, then you won't buy into the above, but "I do" (ha, funny wedding reference) on both counts!
And finally, to respond to your asking if I was alive when "those laws were made," of course I wasn't and I didn't suggest that I was. My point is simply that if you really study the history of this country and the Puritans and the "founding fathers" intent in the context of the times and the circumstances, the laws will actually make a lot of sense. Few people take the time to study or understand that history and find it much easier to just say that laws are baseless and ridiculous -- often out of their own ignorance.
I can't believe in this day and age people still quote the Bible as truth and as facts to support their argument as evidence. Its nothing more than a fictional story people, there are plenty of good ideals to be learned from it but using it to support the idea that God created marriage, come on.
Getting back on topic though, do I think marriage has a purpose? Yes and no, I agree with many of the posters that it is the ultimate committment and I would never belittle anyone who chooses to get married but me personally Im not so sure we're meant to be with just 1 person for our whole life. The marriage statistics are bad enough but how about the number of those marriages that don't end in divorce but one or both partners is unhappy for whatever reason and just sticks with it. I personally would never want someone to stay with me just because we're married, I believe if you truly love someone then you would let them go if they would be happier.
I think marriage has lost its relevance in today's society for many reasons, and that lost relevance is what makes your post seem so rational.
Reason #1: People have sex out of wedlock - a lot. If we were a monogamous race, I think marriage would make more sense, but most of us have had sex with many others prior to marriage. I think that "variety" also damages our sexual relationship with a spouse because we can always compare to other older relationships. If sex was only a part of marriage (socially), then marriage would be more relevant. Now we don't need it to be socially acceptable and have sex.
Reason #2: Divorce has become "no big deal." Where in the past it was seen as an abomination to get divorced, now it's downright popular. Society has made it easier and more acceptable than ever. I'm not saying divorce should be illegal, I'm just saying that it has become woven deeply through our culture and is an easy alternative to working through any smidgen of marital difficulties. More marriages would stay together if the people in them were selfless enough to work at it...
Speaking of which...
Reason #3: We are a very self-centered culture. I'm a fan of Ayn Rand as much as the next chap, but the truth is, we are a self-centered culture. TV shows and movies teach us that we have to "do what's right for us" and that we should constantly be happy. If we aren't, we have the right to divorce someone, have sex with someone else or abandon someone. It's all about me, not it's all about us.
Well I'd love to write more on the issue, but I don't think anyone will read this post anyway :) since there are already so many. At any rate, I just got married and for what it's worth, it changes everything and nothing.
Yes he's still the same guy I was dating before, and I'm still the same girl and we're still in love. But there is a mythical feeling of connectivity, trust, openness and the ability to be myself more than I've ever been myself before.
That's what marriage is - two becoming one. Living together in an apartment, being "in love" and having a baby don't do the same thing that marriage does - in my humble opinion anyway.
Best of luck to you Adam!
Well, I've been with my SO for almost 10 years. I make about $3300 a month (before taxes). My SO has a disability, and has to take medication three times a week. This medication is covered by her medical. If we were married, she would become my "dependent", and I would have to pay for her medication. - $1600 a month.
This is why we don't marry. Simple as that.
Kat - That is truly beautiful!
Thanks for sharing and I hope to be in a marriage just like yours one day!
-Adam
Hollywood's Opinion
Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition:
Twenty-Six Conclusions from the Social Sciences
Sixteen of the top scholars on family life have re-issued a joint report on the importance of marriage.
First released in 2002, the newly revised edition highlights five new themes in marriage-related research.
Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition: 26 Conclusions from the Social Sciences was produced by a politically diverse and interdisciplinary group of leading family scholars, chaired by W. Bradford Wilcox of the University of Virginia and includes psychologist John Gottman, best selling author of books about marriage and relationships, Linda Waite, coauthor of The Case for Marriage, Norval Glenn and Steven Nock, two of the top family social scientists in the country, William Galston, a Clinton Administration domestic policy advisor, and Judith Wallerstein, author of the national bestseller The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce.
Since 1960, the proportion of children who do not live with their own two parents has risen sharply—from 19.4% to 42.3% in the Nineties. This change has been caused, first, by large increases in divorce, and more recently, by a big jump in single mothers and cohabiting couples who have children but don't marry. For several decades the impact of this dramatic change in family structure has been the subject of vigorous debate among scholars. No longer. These 26 findings are now widely agreed upon.
Five New Themes
In addition to reviewing research on family topics covered in the first edition of the report Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition highlights five new themes in marriage-related research.
1. Even though marriage has lost ground in the minority communities in recent years, marriage has not lost its value in these communities.
2. An emerging line of research indicates that marriage benefits poor Americans, and Americans from disadvantaged backgrounds, even though these Americans are now less likely to get and stay married.
3. Marriage seems to be particularly important in civilizing men, turning their attention away from dangerous, antisocial, or self-centered activities and towards the needs of a family.
4. Beyond its well-known contributions to adult health, marriage influences the biological functioning of adults and children in ways that can have important social consequences.
5. The relationship quality of intimate partners is related to both their marital status and, for married adults, to the degree to which these partners are committed to marriage.
Update Research Findings
Among the research findings summarized by the report are:
About Children
· Parental divorce reduces the likelihood that children will graduate from college, and achieve high-status jobs.
· Children who live with their own two married parents enjoy better physical health, on average, than children in other family forms. The health advantages of married homes remain even after taking into account socioeconomic status.
· Parental divorce approximately doubles the odds that adult children will end up divorced.
About Men
· Married men earn between 10 and 40 percent more than single men with similar education and job histories.
· Married people, especially married men, have longer life expectancies than otherwise similar singles.
· Marriage increases the likelihood fathers will have good relationships with children. Sixty-five percent of young adults whose parents divorced had poor relationships with their fathers (compared to 29% from non-divorced families).
About Women
· Divorce and unmarried childbearing significantly increases poverty rates of both mothers and children. Between one-fifth and one-third of divorcing women end up in poverty as a result of divorce.
· Married mothers have lower rates of depression than single or cohabiting mothers.
· Married women appear to have a lower risk of domestic violence than cohabiting or dating women. Even after controlling for race, age, and education, people who live together are still three times more likely to report violent arguments than married people.
About Society
· Adults who live together but do not marry—cohabiters—are more similar to singles than to married couples in terms of physical health and disability, emotional well being and mental health, as well as assets and earnings. Their children more closely resemble the children of single people than the children of married people.
· Marriage appears to reduce the risk that children and adults will be either perpetrators or victims of crime. Single and divorced women are four to five times more likely to be victims of violent crime in any given year than married women. Boys raised in single-parent homes are about twice as likely (and boys raised in stepfamilies three times as likely) to have committed a crime that leads to incarceration by the time they reach their early thirties, even after controlling for factors such as race, mother's education, neighborhood quality and cognitive ability.
Fundamental Conclusions
The authors conclude with three fundamental conclusions:
1. Marriage is an important social good, associated with an impressively broad array of positive outcomes for children and adults alike.
2. Marriage is an important public good, associated with a range of economic, health, educational, and safety benefits that help local, state, and federal governments serve the common good.
3. The benefits of marriage extend to poor and minority communities, despite the fact that marriage is particularly fragile in these communities.
Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition:
Twenty-Six Conclusions from the Social Sciences
Sixteen of the top scholars on family life have re-issued a joint report on the importance of marriage.
First released in 2002, the newly revised edition highlights five new themes in marriage-related research.
Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition: 26 Conclusions from the Social Sciences was produced by a politically diverse and interdisciplinary group of leading family scholars, chaired by W. Bradford Wilcox of the University of Virginia and includes psychologist John Gottman, best selling author of books about marriage and relationships, Linda Waite, coauthor of The Case for Marriage, Norval Glenn and Steven Nock, two of the top family social scientists in the country, William Galston, a Clinton Administration domestic policy advisor, and Judith Wallerstein, author of the national bestseller The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce.
Since 1960, the proportion of children who do not live with their own two parents has risen sharply—from 19.4% to 42.3% in the Nineties. This change has been caused, first, by large increases in divorce, and more recently, by a big jump in single mothers and cohabiting couples who have children but don't marry. For several decades the impact of this dramatic change in family structure has been the subject of vigorous debate among scholars. No longer. These 26 findings are now widely agreed upon.
Five New Themes
In addition to reviewing research on family topics covered in the first edition of the report Why Marriage Matters, Second Edition highlights five new themes in marriage-related research.
1. Even though marriage has lost ground in the minority communities in recent years, marriage has not lost its value in these communities.
2. An emerging line of research indicates that marriage benefits poor Americans, and Americans from disadvantaged backgrounds, even though these Americans are now less likely to get and stay married.
3. Marriage seems to be particularly important in civilizing men, turning their attention away from dangerous, antisocial, or self-centered activities and towards the needs of a family.
4. Beyond its well-known contributions to adult health, marriage influences the biological functioning of adults and children in ways that can have important social consequences.
5. The relationship quality of intimate partners is related to both their marital status and, for married adults, to the degree to which these partners are committed to marriage.
Update Research Findings
Among the research findings summarized by the report are:
About Children
· Parental divorce reduces the likelihood that children will graduate from college, and achieve high-status jobs.
· Children who live with their own two married parents enjoy better physical health, on average, than children in other family forms. The health advantages of married homes remain even after taking into account socioeconomic status.
· Parental divorce approximately doubles the odds that adult children will end up divorced.
About Men
· Married men earn between 10 and 40 percent more than single men with similar education and job histories.
· Married people, especially married men, have longer life expectancies than otherwise similar singles.
· Marriage increases the likelihood fathers will have good relationships with children. Sixty-five percent of young adults whose parents divorced had poor relationships with their fathers (compared to 29% from non-divorced families).
About Women
· Divorce and unmarried childbearing significantly increases poverty rates of both mothers and children. Between one-fifth and one-third of divorcing women end up in poverty as a result of divorce.
· Married mothers have lower rates of depression than single or cohabiting mothers.
· Married women appear to have a lower risk of domestic violence than cohabiting or dating women. Even after controlling for race, age, and education, people who live together are still three times more likely to report violent arguments than married people.
About Society
· Adults who live together but do not marry—cohabiters—are more similar to singles than to married couples in terms of physical health and disability, emotional well being and mental health, as well as assets and earnings. Their children more closely resemble the children of single people than the children of married people.
· Marriage appears to reduce the risk that children and adults will be either perpetrators or victims of crime. Single and divorced women are four to five times more likely to be victims of violent crime in any given year than married women. Boys raised in single-parent homes are about twice as likely (and boys raised in stepfamilies three times as likely) to have committed a crime that leads to incarceration by the time they reach their early thirties, even after controlling for factors such as race, mother's education, neighborhood quality and cognitive ability.
Fundamental Conclusions
The authors conclude with three fundamental conclusions:
1. Marriage is an important social good, associated with an impressively broad array of positive outcomes for children and adults alike.
2. Marriage is an important public good, associated with a range of economic, health, educational, and safety benefits that help local, state, and federal governments serve the common good.
3. The benefits of marriage extend to poor and minority communities, despite the fact that marriage is particularly fragile in these communities.
Half of married couples may divorce - but half do stayed married. There must be something to it.
I don't think you should get married to live up to some societal standard. I lived with my husband for four years before we were married. I'm cool with that.
But I'm of the mindset that do what works for you and stop analyzing. Different strokes for different folks, you know.
You're right, 50% of marriages end in divorce. The reason for this is that too many people don't view marriage as a covenant (thoroughly binding on both parties) and they let their egos, financial, or sexual problems get in the way of offering themselves fully to their spouses. You can't be safe by getting married, because giving yourself wholly over to someone else isn't a safe decision. If you can't handle the risk of putting yourself entirely emotionally and financially into the hands of another, don't get married. It may be a risk to give yourself over to another, but if you hold anything back, or if you say, "Let's have sex first, to see if we're compatible," you've already lost. Doing that is setting yourself up for failure. Are there people who will try to convince you to marry them only to betray you later? Of course, and hopefully you will avoid marrying a piece of scum like that, but if you go into marriage half-heartedly, the marriage won't survive unless you change your attitude and commit yourself entirely.
After reading most of these posts, I am obviously a LOT older than everyone else here.
No one is right or wrong on this, since it is a very personal and sensitive issue. I will tell you I'm religious and my husband and I were married in a religious ceremony. We didn't live together before we got married, and I still lived with my parents.
Almost 19 years later, we are still best friends, tell each other everything, laugh at each other's stupid jokes, bitch and whine about our jobs at each other, repeat movie lines together, and most of the time finish each other's thoughts and sentences.
Oh, and we harass our 17-year-old daughter about college... together.
We have never had a major fight or argument, neither of us has ever wanted to walk out, and we're still very much in love.
Yes, we're very fortunate to have found each other, and we know that. And our daughter knows it, and my parents who just celebrated their 52nd anniversary know it.
So you never know. The right person may be out there waiting for you, and you just haven't bumped into each other yet. Don't completely dismiss marriage, as it can be wonderful and extremely fulfilling.
And yes, you do have to work at it. But if it's the right person, it isn't really that hard.
I came from a mono-parental familly and was raised by my mom who never got married, I feel like she is missing her life not to be at least married once,.
I dream to get marry now, and to offer to my children the real father I didnt have, also I think wedding is a noble thang.
its the way its supposed to be, get marry, then have kids
when you start reading a book that everyone says its really good, you dont need to read it all in the same day,
since you know it will be good. why dont make it last 4ever!
yeah I turned 30 6 months ago and been 30 with no kids, no wife, no girlfriend hurts a lot!
Wonderful post and brilliant comments...everyone has their opinion on marriage depending on their own experiences...and this forum is enlightening to say the least……marriages can be beautiful and they can be extremely traumatic. In my case it was the latter but that didn’t make me cynical enough to close to my mind to it.
I still believe that marriage can be endearing, it can mean sharing your life with someone special and it can mean having someone to come home to in this rather individualistic world. But when I look at the pain some marriages can cause to people and their kids, I really wonder if its worth the angst.
The wants of every human is driven by either desire or by need...more about this in a bit.
In conservative countries like my own (India), its really an unsaid rule that all women will and should marry and 'settle' down...women in India know that their social acceptability depends on being a 'wife'...but things are rapidly changing here too. Women are becoming economically independent and our divorce rates have shot up through the roof. Some of the urban Indians who are choosing to life either a single life or living together are not considered 'abnormal' anymore.
According to me, if the desire for marriage is based on social acceptability, economic dependence, procreation etc., then its worth it to think twice about this marriage of convenience and be prepared for the repercussions...if its based on a 'want' to be with someone who will accept you as you change along the road of life, then I'd say GO FOR IT.
I have never had a desire to get married, which is immediately followed by, "but what about children?" Last time I checked you didn't need a wedding band on your ring finger to become pregnant. I think a lot of people use "the kids" excuse as a reason to get married. I think to two are mutally exclusive. If I want to live with someone and have his child, what is wrong with that? And, how is that any different from having a child in wedlock?
People place too much value into marriage as if it all of sudden is some magical transformation, when in reality it's not all that different from two people living together. I think marriage alters the relationship because despite people's best efforts they tend to categorize themselves and their wife/husband into narrow traditional roles whereas in a co-habiting relationship, the couple is not constrained to the "you go to work, I make dinner" normative expectations. As a couple, who isn't married, I feel that the other person is less likely to criticize a person's goals and habits because nothing is certain, nothing is linking that person to the other unconditionally. I believe being in a relationship sans marriage is more fluid and allows people to explore their identities. Somehow when two people become married the "wildness" flies out the window.
Lia, marriage is what you make of it. And for some people it is quite different from just living together. I don't think you can make hard-and-fast statements, because people are different.
To quote Jason . . .
"The mutual risk to all parties under marriage encourages selfless behavior, forgiveness, and long-term thinking. "
Very naive Jason. What mutual risk? Yes, marriage is a very real risk for men, but much less so for women. Often, soon after the marriage is in place, the selfish, short-term behavior starts.
With educated American women in particular the attitude is: "what are you going to do for me today?".
Unrealistic and unmet expectations are the leading cause of divorce. Which is why the very people that press most for marriage -- women -- are responsible for the bulk of divorce filings. There is no other social enterprise that is hyped so heavily, yet fails so often and so miserably. Wake up!
Check out www.nomarriage.com if you're a guy considering marriage, or simply if you want to explore the issue.
what prooves an understanding agreement bw you, your families and your community ? what is a promise ? ? why dont we have a license for playing our favorite instrument ? what is so non flexible about making it work w another person and or ourselves ? have we become weaker humans ? where is a child born from, is it your responsibility to proove to that child what love and respect is ? honour where you came from ? who gives about the tax breakes etc.. is that the point of LIFE to you ? "5 yrs seeing", " 10 yrs dating", "10 yrs screwing", why dont you just marry ? is it to be able to leave or cheat ? we can always end a marriage . but why think of the ending instead of the beginning ? what would be the reason for someone who loves you not to marry you ?
WOW! That's a lot of comments you got there people sure have alot to say about what you wrote. I was looking hard for an answer like yours. Good Job, it's nice to hear out other peoples point of view. I find this helpful and Intersting.
Interesting.
They pay you to write this vapid drivel and where can I get your job?
I couldn't have said it better myself... "Marriage makes a relationship divine. Getting married means that something bigger than both of you is bringing you together. A wedding achieves something that simply can't happen otherwise -- God is introduced into the relationship.
Until they are married, a couple's commitment to each other is a human commitment, with all the limitations of being human. We can't see the future, we can't know what may change and what may eventuate, and we make mistakes. The chuppah elevates the commitment beyond human limitations. The blessings made under the chuppah invoke God's name upon the couple, and bring God into the union as a partner. You are married not just because you chose to be, but because God has said so.
Without a chuppah you can have love, commitment and family -- but it isn't holy. Only by standing under a chuppah and marrying according to tradition does your union become sacred. Only after the wedding is your love blessed with the divine imprint of eternity."
I accidently fell over this post during a google-search and I felt the urge to share my opinion on this subject as well.
This might've been mentioned before, but if so I will simply stress the point. Love is - at least it has always been to me - irrational. However, the points you make are rational.
Every point you make I can follow. Your argumentation has its origins in reason and logic. Love isn't logical. Being a hopeless romantic I would never get married because of any of the reasons you stated above. I am not married myself (and far too young to marry anytime soon), but I do know the sensation of being in love all to well.
In fact studies have shown that our brain patterns when we're in love are similar to those of a mentally ill person. I don't believe it can truly be discussed when only logic is taken into consideration.
Marriage to me has not only a symbollic value. It's the craving of the one you love to belong to you forever, the promises of loving each other through thick and thin, it's how you truly believe that what you have with the one you love is unique and uncomparable to others. It's not logic, it's anything but..
- It doesn't matter whether 50 % of all marriages ends in divorce - the important thing is the wish to become a part of the 50 % that does last untill "death do us part". It's about hope and it's about faith - neither measurable or neccesarily logical.
Speaking of percentages - is it even relevant to discuss whether marriage is irrelevant in todays society when 50 % do (supposedly) uphold there promises to each other?
I read parts of your blog and you do not seem like the type of person who sees the glass half-empty instead of half-full. You strike me as a positive person who generally has a strong believe that if you want something bad enough, you can make it happen. I suppose the essense of your company is that we ARE capable of retrieving out goals. Perhaps you should transfer this positive out look to this matter. This is a case of fifty-fifty/half-empty-half-full. Why not consider the glass half full instead?
In conclusion I don't think one can measure love. As your post, and the impressive amount of comments, show, we all have different perceptions of marriage. The fact that so many people still believe in marriage proofs to me that it is anything but a contract.
Why is not important. The important thing is that people - what ever their reasons may be - marry and considers this commitment unique and special. That it is something more than a contract to them.
Perhaps one day you will meet someone who will create that certain irrational longing in your chest, perhaps not - either way, as long as everybody does whatever makes them happy, I believe that is the most important thing. Marriage might be a contract to you, but that only makes marriage a contract in your book, in reality everything is relative.
I have yet to find a married couple that think marriage is "just a contract" or a piece of paper. That's because once you get married, you realize just what it's all about. Every one has their own reasons for choosing to marry or just live together. For me, it was simple. I love my husband of 5 years, and we wanted our union to be blessed in the eyes of God. That's right. A lot of us believe in God and want to do what the bible teaches. And it comes very naturally when you find the one you're supposed to be with.
I really don't think I'm going to answer your question, and besides that I think you will shoot it down anyways, but here goes. I am really fearful of commitment, thanks to my parents, and am hesitant because of the high chance of divorce. I also believe that anything could happen and people change. People get married because they want that tie to a person who they love and is supposed to love them for the rest of their lives. This means that this person who has made a commitment to you will always be there no matter how hard. You can argue and say that people can have that without marriage, but how would one guarantee that? People get married because they believe it will last forever, and not because the divorce rate is 50% or everyone they know has gotten a divorce. If I'm in a relationship with someone it does not mean that I am 100% committed. I love my boyfriend and wouldn't want to break up, but even after two years I'm still learning about him. There is no right answer to what makes a marriage or even a relationship work besides a willingness on both sides to make it work. What other or better way to express that commitment than marriage?
People get divorced because they're unhappy. I think people are unhappy with themselves, but often blame it on their spouse. They get a divorce thinking it will make them happy, but a lot of times, it doesn't. I read a statistic in a magazine one. 40% of married people, 12% of divorced people, and 26% of single/never married people are happy. Of course, this isn't necessarily accurate of all people, but of the poll they took, that's the response they got back.
Why get married? Because two people love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives with each other. Some people can handle the ups and downs of marriage, while some people can't. You either last in the marriage or you don't-which is why 50% of marriages end in divorce. It all depends on the people involved.
I feel with cohabitation, there's no commitment. Like saying hey, let's just live together and if it doesn't work out, oh well. If you can't handle a marriage, why would you be able to handle a relationship with out the vows. Why NOT get married?
People are way too negative and such a pessimistic outlook on things, not just marriage. People get married because they love each other.
No you don't need a ring to be pregnant, but when you're married, your kids are most likely going to have the same father. That's gross to be sleeping with multiple people and having a different fathers for each kid.
Not saying that happens in all scenarios, but it seems very likely if humans can't stay committed to one person for the rest of their lives.
People don't want to commit because their selfish. People get divorced because their selfish and just want what they don't have. I guess it's human nature to be that way.
I, too, am really surprised at how few are mentioning the original design of marriage. I understand that divorce is so common that hardly anyone thinks of it as a tragedy anymore -- except, perhaps, the ones experiencing it. But somewhere along the line the idea of permanence was thrown aside. "Till death do us part" is still part of most wedding ceremonies, but most don't really take those words seriously, and they should.
According to the Bible, which I believe in, marriage is to be a lifetime plan between a man and woman, not to enter into lightly and not a convenience that can be disposed of in a lawyer's office. The love between husband and wife is, at its best, a hint of the deeper love between a human being and God. Marriage is to be 1) a promise to God by the two marrying that they will honor Him (therefore honoring each other) and 2) asking Him to bless their marriage.
I've heard it said that marriage is a mirror of God's love and long-suffering patience with man. Yes, that is funny! But think about that: God is SOOOOO patient with man and our rebellion towards Him—we are so opposite of His goodness in this world, but He loves us and wants to grow us, so He works with us. Well, marriage can be a very lovely and moving and exciting thing, but really it's about getting past the "eros" phase of the relationship (being "in love" and all googly-eyed) like man when he was a new-born, and onto the "agape" phase of the relationship—real love, which requires patience, understanding, uplifting the other, and commitment. This would mirror "God's growing us" I spoke of. Love becomes a verb, no longer a personal feeling.
And that right there, is what wrecks most marriages and causes divorce. When man takes a worldly view of marriage and bases a sacred union on "feelings" and "finances" or whatnot and taken God's view of marriage out of the equation, then man will always do what man who has rejected Him has always done: he will choose for himself what is best, so if his/her "feelings of love" go away and they "feel" it can't be retrieved, the towel is thrown in.
Of course marriage can be hard. Most are, even for some Christians. But not all. It's interesting. Authentic Christian husbands and wives lift each other up in their devotion to God and don't guide their marriage solely based on feelings, but on action, in accordance with His word. But most people either don't believe in Him, or believe but don't follow His word, and thus, there are problems in the relationship.
Really, Adam, you've answered most of your own question: marriage serves the purpose of God's intent for man 1) in not being alone (see Genesis 2:18); 2) in procreation—God wants man and woman to come together and be fruitful and propagate the earth with more believers to fight evil; and 3) for purity & sanctification—marriage was ordained as a "remedy against sin and to avoid fornication, that such persons that have not the gift of continency, might marry and keep themselves undefiled members of Christ's body."
Some people are not meant to be married. Most are. You just have to decide if you can make that kind of commitment to God, not just your mate. But that's what it's about. Read Chapter 6, "Christian Marriage" in C.S. Lewis' book "Mere Christianity"—really good insight on the purpose and actualities of married life.
Although there are a million posts on this,
Why does marriage have to be necessary in order to do it?
This is an interesting and relevant thread.
Like many of you, I question the value of marriage in today's society.
As a protection for the children? Well, family law courts don't value the participation of both parents and routinely approve "single parent" arrangements, usually mother-centric. Custody battles become "beauty contests" over who is the better parent and the children routinely lose. On the other hand, courts diligently enforce "child support" obligations. So protection of kids can't be the reason.
As a legal assurance of rights of ownership? It used to be that the rights of dower and curtesy protected the spouse's share of the marital estate. But it was never 50/50. Today we have equitable distribution instead,where the court is empowered to grant its own version of fairness, which simply becomes a contest of who was the bigger victim in the relationship. Disgusting. So many folks are suprised these days upon breakup of a marriage that the courts don't really inquire or care who really put in the effort or had the talent. Talent and effort are not rewarded. Look at any celebrity divorce - who wins and who loses?
Someone mentioned an assurance of family - its' not. You can pick the other family in any non-marriage relationship, so you have the same choice. If things go awry, family usually supports its own, just the opposite of what one hopes will happen.
And why do we need a ring and certificate to stamp "approved" on a relationship. Relationships are hard, they need constant tending. Being married with the guarrantee of the certificate only encourages the people to be careless and neglectful. How much closer are we going to tend a relationship where the other person is not chained to you?
I have seen far too many lives, families, and careers destroyed in divorce. No institution of marriage is worth the destruction it leaves in its wake.
Look - marriage used to mean "for good" unless you were the king and could access life-ending separation techniques. That's what marriage meant. A lifelong contract, that both sides could depend upon. You could count on someone being there and require them to be there. You could retaliate against someone outside who tried to intrude into your relationship. Marriage meant you had to support the other person. Marriage meant you could not run when it became hard. Marriage meant sacrifice and giving. Marriage meant certainty and security for the children.
The institution is a hollow shell, now. It means none of these. It is a strictly voluntary convenience these days, terminable at will in great harm.
We either need to restore the contract of marriage to its former meaning and power, or just dismiss the whole silly thing.
GOT SOMETHING TO SAY?