I guess I'm a woman getting an MBA, so I'm a little biased. But I disagree with your theory. I wrote about this on my own blog in more detail, but because the numbers are given in percentages, I believe the study is misleading. There are less women than men in the programs mentioned, so the number of men getting divorced is about the same as the number of women... which makes sense, if women and men in these types of programs are attracted to each other.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the article mentioned how many of the men and women were single vs. married either. That could skew the numbers too.
But most likely a small band of guys do know better than to marry a woman with the passion for business, law, or med. school, when they themselves plan on a power career. This make sense.
I think it's harder for women to find this same situation because a female breadwinner can be hard on both the man and the woman in the relationship... especially when the disparity is large.
Well, my wife is a recent law school grad and I am already in business management. I married her because of her goals, ambition, and intelligence. But I also understood that those people (myself included) aren't always the best to deal with. We have an 8 month old son, and we both do our share of bottle and diaper duty. Many people have difficulty dealing with other ambitious people. Luckily, I do not.
While we certainly have our fair share of disagreements, I think the core of the issue (which that article fails to recognize) is that the men craving power don't WANT the responsibility of the home life. They have assistants at the office to handle the details, and the wife at home to do the same.
April 3, 2008 1:30 pm
Tracy
"The fact is that ambitious, career-driven women are not attracted to guys who want to stay at home and change diapers."
I wish more MBA-type women would consider non-MBA-type guys...it has worked well for me and my husband. I went for the MBA and high-paying corporate job while my husband has a more flexible career. So, he's the one who picks up our daughter from daycare, does the grocery shopping, etc.
I think it's true that life is easier if you are mated to someone whose strenghts and interests complement yours instead of competing with them. But it's sad if women are trapped by their own assumptions of what makes a good mate.
Personally, at the age of soon-to be 22 (6 days)... I have no idea what I want in a mate. I have plenty of ambitions of my own though, and that's where my focus lies right now. I do plan on getting my MBA in the future as well, but right now I'm graduating next month and currently on the job hunt.
I'm also just reaching the end of my 10-month long relationship, and I now have no idea what I want in a relationship. I've always thought I wanted the ambitious, driven woman, but after flings and relationship Battempts with a few, they were usually too busy for me I would get frustrated and things would just fade off. So, I got in a relationship with somebody who's not so busy and not so ambitious. But, the main problem we had was she never understood why I was so busy and so driven, and always wanted more of my time... so, that's coming to an end. Now, I'm back to thinking I need an ambitious and driven women who is more like me.... but who knows. I'm sure I have plenty more dating trial and errors to make before I find "the one".
It's hard balancing relationships and life. I would bet that (without even looking at statistics) there's a higher divorce rate for ambitious people all around, because of the fact that as an ambitious person, you eventually get sick of and almost despise a person who is asking for too much of your time, because you feel they are trying to separate you from your ambitions and your dreams. My guess for the higher divorce rate for the Women MBA's would be that this is more common for them, because as you stated, once a marriage gets to the point where kids come into the picture - the traditional idea is the mom does the little things like make lunches and go to soccer practice, etc. So, the driven women reaches the aforementioned state of being someone despised that her husband ask all these things of her when she still has her own ambitions and drive - she probably feels like he's asking her to do most of the work with the kids and he's not doing enough... and the problems ensue.
Just a thought.... from a young college student who knows nothing and has very little experience at long-term relationships.
I can tell you from experience that it's hard to juggle an ambitious career and healthy family life in addition to getting an MBA part-time, that's me! Something has to give, but I don't want to give anything up. Can't I have it all? Hahahaha, of course not.
I'm 40, divorced and, when my kids were born, did "opt out" of the workforce for a good 8 years. I never went to business school so I can't speak to that, but what I can say is that I can totally see why it's true that successful women are more likely to get divorced than successful men.
Having "opted out" myself, I experienced first-hand how powerless to leave a bad marriage a woman is when she doesn't have a job. I eventually opted back in and got divorced.
If you're a woman who can support yourself (and your kids, if you have any) divorce is a much more viable and attractive option than staying married if you're not happy. This is way more true for a successful woman than for a man; like you say, successful man with a wife at home, taking care of the kids, cooking, cleaning, etc--what's not to like? Then take successful woman--working, doing most of the childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc; unless you're blissfully in love with your husband why stay married?
I will also say this, even if it's not 100% on topic: one thing I've been shocked to learn as I've gotten older and older is how much men hate change. I can't tell you how many instances I know of where either the wife is cheating and the husband knows about it and allows it, or the wife commits a felony (true story!) and goes to jail--TWICE!--and the husband stays in the marriage, or the man is cheating but stays married. Men do not like change. Women are more able to roll with the punches, in my opinion--not so much women who aren't able to support themselves, but those who are--why stay married when you're not financially obligated to?
Maggie, I understand what you are saying. From what I've seen, women traditionally stay in bad marriages for the financial support, and often have given up too much of their careers to take care of kids. They can't reenter the workforce and afford their lifestyles anymore, so they stay and make it work.
But if a woman can support herself, she doesn't have as much to lose in a divorce. So if her unhappiness persists, she'll leave.
April 3, 2008 6:31 pm
Jeremy Stone
For the record, I think Ms. Weaver is insightful and quite intelligent.
I was just talking to some friends about this topic recently, and this was my thought on the matter. Being an MBA involved in corporate enterprises requires a more-than-normal contribution of time and energy. 80 hour weeks are not uncommon, and the level of stress involved can be quite distracting. To have a family though, a similarly significant investment of time and energy is required by at least one, if not both, spouses.
In the vein of what was said above about how ambitious people carefully guard their time, if two people in a relationship are so jealously guarding their time, they are less likely to be able to invest the time necessary for a healthy relationship to work.
To me, the problem is that there are far more women in our culture who will invest that familial time, than men who will. Therefore, male MBAs have access to more spouses who can balance out the roles in relationships than female MBAs are finding.
It would be interesting to control the findings for what type of people the divorcees are marrying. My assumption would be that the women are marrying more MBA-type men (because finding otherwise is harder), and therefore have less relationship support in the marriages. Male MBAs, having more access to mates able to provide relationship support, would consequently have lower divorce rates.
I say all this because the tenor of a lot of the comments to this blog suggest that men in the relationship will necessarily relegate all women to the role of "mother" or "caretaker". Although there are male chauvinists everywhere, perhaps there are mutual expectations when two ambitious people come together, and the fact that neither spouse has the time to meet those expectations puts extraordinary pressure on the relationships. Divorce would be likely to ensue.
Thanks for raising this issue -- during my last 3 months at a top-5 business school, I found myself to play the role of marriage counselor for several classmates.
This is a very complex issue, and there are a number of reasons. Based on the interactions I had with b-school classmates who were having marriage issues, I think there are a few things in common:
1) most of their relationships were in trouble before they started school. The intense life style in b-school only worsen the relationship because they have less time to work it out
2) MBA students tend to have unrealistic expectation about their future career, money, etc. This is applicable to men and women. The marketing machines of major business schools, the "glamors" of i-banking, management consulting, etc. -- sometime make ambitious people foget who truly matters in their lives.
3) the geographical separation is an issue people tend to underestimate. when you're thousands of miles apart, it's hard.
4) One thing I keep hearing is that "if your relationship is going to fall apart during b-school, then it means you don't have a good marriage. And you're probably better off to get a divorce anyway." I think it's not as simple as people think.
9 RESPONSES TO "EARN THAT M.B.A. AND A DIVORCE TOO"
I guess I'm a woman getting an MBA, so I'm a little biased. But I disagree with your theory. I wrote about this on my own blog in more detail, but because the numbers are given in percentages, I believe the study is misleading. There are less women than men in the programs mentioned, so the number of men getting divorced is about the same as the number of women... which makes sense, if women and men in these types of programs are attracted to each other.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the article mentioned how many of the men and women were single vs. married either. That could skew the numbers too.
But most likely a small band of guys do know better than to marry a woman with the passion for business, law, or med. school, when they themselves plan on a power career. This make sense.
I think it's harder for women to find this same situation because a female breadwinner can be hard on both the man and the woman in the relationship... especially when the disparity is large.
Well, my wife is a recent law school grad and I am already in business management. I married her because of her goals, ambition, and intelligence. But I also understood that those people (myself included) aren't always the best to deal with. We have an 8 month old son, and we both do our share of bottle and diaper duty. Many people have difficulty dealing with other ambitious people. Luckily, I do not.
While we certainly have our fair share of disagreements, I think the core of the issue (which that article fails to recognize) is that the men craving power don't WANT the responsibility of the home life. They have assistants at the office to handle the details, and the wife at home to do the same.
"The fact is that ambitious, career-driven women are not attracted to guys who want to stay at home and change diapers."
I wish more MBA-type women would consider non-MBA-type guys...it has worked well for me and my husband. I went for the MBA and high-paying corporate job while my husband has a more flexible career. So, he's the one who picks up our daughter from daycare, does the grocery shopping, etc.
I think it's true that life is easier if you are mated to someone whose strenghts and interests complement yours instead of competing with them. But it's sad if women are trapped by their own assumptions of what makes a good mate.
An interesting theory.
Personally, at the age of soon-to be 22 (6 days)... I have no idea what I want in a mate. I have plenty of ambitions of my own though, and that's where my focus lies right now. I do plan on getting my MBA in the future as well, but right now I'm graduating next month and currently on the job hunt.
I'm also just reaching the end of my 10-month long relationship, and I now have no idea what I want in a relationship. I've always thought I wanted the ambitious, driven woman, but after flings and relationship Battempts with a few, they were usually too busy for me I would get frustrated and things would just fade off. So, I got in a relationship with somebody who's not so busy and not so ambitious. But, the main problem we had was she never understood why I was so busy and so driven, and always wanted more of my time... so, that's coming to an end. Now, I'm back to thinking I need an ambitious and driven women who is more like me.... but who knows. I'm sure I have plenty more dating trial and errors to make before I find "the one".
It's hard balancing relationships and life. I would bet that (without even looking at statistics) there's a higher divorce rate for ambitious people all around, because of the fact that as an ambitious person, you eventually get sick of and almost despise a person who is asking for too much of your time, because you feel they are trying to separate you from your ambitions and your dreams. My guess for the higher divorce rate for the Women MBA's would be that this is more common for them, because as you stated, once a marriage gets to the point where kids come into the picture - the traditional idea is the mom does the little things like make lunches and go to soccer practice, etc. So, the driven women reaches the aforementioned state of being someone despised that her husband ask all these things of her when she still has her own ambitions and drive - she probably feels like he's asking her to do most of the work with the kids and he's not doing enough... and the problems ensue.
Just a thought.... from a young college student who knows nothing and has very little experience at long-term relationships.
I can tell you from experience that it's hard to juggle an ambitious career and healthy family life in addition to getting an MBA part-time, that's me! Something has to give, but I don't want to give anything up. Can't I have it all? Hahahaha, of course not.
Sophia
http://www.sophiaperl.com
I'm 40, divorced and, when my kids were born, did "opt out" of the workforce for a good 8 years. I never went to business school so I can't speak to that, but what I can say is that I can totally see why it's true that successful women are more likely to get divorced than successful men.
Having "opted out" myself, I experienced first-hand how powerless to leave a bad marriage a woman is when she doesn't have a job. I eventually opted back in and got divorced.
If you're a woman who can support yourself (and your kids, if you have any) divorce is a much more viable and attractive option than staying married if you're not happy. This is way more true for a successful woman than for a man; like you say, successful man with a wife at home, taking care of the kids, cooking, cleaning, etc--what's not to like? Then take successful woman--working, doing most of the childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc; unless you're blissfully in love with your husband why stay married?
I will also say this, even if it's not 100% on topic: one thing I've been shocked to learn as I've gotten older and older is how much men hate change. I can't tell you how many instances I know of where either the wife is cheating and the husband knows about it and allows it, or the wife commits a felony (true story!) and goes to jail--TWICE!--and the husband stays in the marriage, or the man is cheating but stays married. Men do not like change. Women are more able to roll with the punches, in my opinion--not so much women who aren't able to support themselves, but those who are--why stay married when you're not financially obligated to?
Maggie, I understand what you are saying. From what I've seen, women traditionally stay in bad marriages for the financial support, and often have given up too much of their careers to take care of kids. They can't reenter the workforce and afford their lifestyles anymore, so they stay and make it work.
But if a woman can support herself, she doesn't have as much to lose in a divorce. So if her unhappiness persists, she'll leave.
For the record, I think Ms. Weaver is insightful and quite intelligent.
I was just talking to some friends about this topic recently, and this was my thought on the matter. Being an MBA involved in corporate enterprises requires a more-than-normal contribution of time and energy. 80 hour weeks are not uncommon, and the level of stress involved can be quite distracting. To have a family though, a similarly significant investment of time and energy is required by at least one, if not both, spouses.
In the vein of what was said above about how ambitious people carefully guard their time, if two people in a relationship are so jealously guarding their time, they are less likely to be able to invest the time necessary for a healthy relationship to work.
To me, the problem is that there are far more women in our culture who will invest that familial time, than men who will. Therefore, male MBAs have access to more spouses who can balance out the roles in relationships than female MBAs are finding.
It would be interesting to control the findings for what type of people the divorcees are marrying. My assumption would be that the women are marrying more MBA-type men (because finding otherwise is harder), and therefore have less relationship support in the marriages. Male MBAs, having more access to mates able to provide relationship support, would consequently have lower divorce rates.
I say all this because the tenor of a lot of the comments to this blog suggest that men in the relationship will necessarily relegate all women to the role of "mother" or "caretaker". Although there are male chauvinists everywhere, perhaps there are mutual expectations when two ambitious people come together, and the fact that neither spouse has the time to meet those expectations puts extraordinary pressure on the relationships. Divorce would be likely to ensue.
Just my two cents.
Thanks for raising this issue -- during my last 3 months at a top-5 business school, I found myself to play the role of marriage counselor for several classmates.
I actually written down my observations and 3 specific case studies at my blog (http://www.geekmba360.com/?p=82#more-82).
This is a very complex issue, and there are a number of reasons. Based on the interactions I had with b-school classmates who were having marriage issues, I think there are a few things in common:
1) most of their relationships were in trouble before they started school. The intense life style in b-school only worsen the relationship because they have less time to work it out
2) MBA students tend to have unrealistic expectation about their future career, money, etc. This is applicable to men and women. The marketing machines of major business schools, the "glamors" of i-banking, management consulting, etc. -- sometime make ambitious people foget who truly matters in their lives.
3) the geographical separation is an issue people tend to underestimate. when you're thousands of miles apart, it's hard.
4) One thing I keep hearing is that "if your relationship is going to fall apart during b-school, then it means you don't have a good marriage. And you're probably better off to get a divorce anyway." I think it's not as simple as people think.
cheers,
GeekMBA (www.GeekMBA360.com)
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