Richard, I couldn't agree more with your entire post. The university I attend does a little bit of that for us entrepreneurship & biz dev majors, but that's more because they're still defining the curriculum.
If college were as you prescribed, it would be vastly more beneficial. The issue, I think, is that benefit would only hit a small number of people.
There will still be those wanting to go to college to have fun. Those going for "just a job". Those who aren't looking to push the limits or become the best.
Even then. I would say college isn't for those who want to become the best. I think it's an even greater waste of time for them. In a societal hoop that's been put in place, unfortunately. I'd bet those who question going to college vs. doing something else honestly great are the ones it benefits least. Because at least if you go not wanting to be the best, you have a high chance of learning skills you'll try to utilize for the next 10 years.
Richard - The best class I ever took was a marketing class where the class was split into groups and we had to write an entire new marketing campaign for a small business.
Grades came down to a fifteen minute pitch at the end of the semester to the owner. One winning group was chosen and was given some cash and the promise of using part of the campaign.
It's a win-win for everyone... Students get real world experience and the small business gets a bunch of new marketing ideas...
If all classes were like that, college would have been much more educational...
April 2, 2008 2:24 pm
Scott M
WHOA!
College is not a factory for churning out business-people.
It's a place to learn about a wide range of topics and also gain some basic skills for the workplace. And maybe have some time to grow up a bit before being dumped into the real world. I know when I started college at 17, I didn't have a clue about life.
And note that I said BASIC skills. No university is going to completely prepare you for a job, because every company is different. The really specific training comes later, on the job. Sure, you could skip college and go directly to the job, but knowing the basics and theory helps a lot.
College isn't necessarily for everyone. If it's not for you, then do something else. But don't complain that it's not something it wasn't designed to be in the first place.
April 2, 2008 2:32 pm
Sean
Ugh, when exactly did people start thinking of college as a glorified (and increasingly expensive) trade school rather than an institution of higher learning? While its true that many top jobs are difficult if not impossible to attain without a college degree, The Job isn't really the point.
In my opinion, college should be more about exposure to ideas and learning how to learn, regardless of career path. Critical and analytical thinking come in very handy no matter where your career takes you, and far too few people really know how to do it effectively.
I do see a place for Richard's brand of college, but I hope I never see the day when it becomes the only choice out there. For students who already has already chosen fixed career paths that they know they will stick to, or who are interested in investigating broader entrepreneurial arts, a system like he's describing might have appeal. But the risk is that these students may change their minds in their 30s or 40s and decide that they went in the wrong direction, and they won't have the fundamentals that allow them to recover.
April 2, 2008 3:53 pm
Steve
This approach might work to some extent in business schools, but many people do go to school for reasons other than entrepreneurship.
I also have to disagree about changing grading. I think many younger folks have been brought up with too little in the way of consequences for making mistakes. Helicopter parents embark on far too many rescue missions which create an expectation of low consequences later in life.
The real life lesson you learn is that the bigger the mistake, the worse the consequences are, and there should be no expectation that someone will bail you out of a bad decision.
Yes, risk is important, but those risks need to balanced with consequences too, otherwise we become reckless and unconcerned about the outcomes of big mistakes.
I agree with the jist of what you're talking about. I was just at a career fair today and talking with other recruiters on how much in college you have no idea what's in store, nor do they usually know what they want to do. I think there should be somewhere to help people decide what kind of job they actually want, then pick the education to help them. I wish I had known more before choosing a major because now I don't use most of what I paid to learn.
You can find a lot of graduate programs that offer hands on application of the theory you're learning. Some of the tracks available for my M.A. in Communication Management were very heavy in project work; students graduated with a portfolio of consulting work. A friend doing her MBA is seems to always be buried under some team project. Another doing a degree in Spiritual Psychology has a series of applied theory projects (group and solo)and papers to complete before she can graduate.
The reason grad programs are so heavy in application of theory? You're committing to a specialty. You're training to be an expert in a subject area, so you need to know how to use that information in a real world environment.
College on the other hand, you go to college to learn how to think by taking a variety of classes that should also help you figure out what direction you want to go in professionally. You develop your ability to analyze a lot of information and draw conclusions that you can support. A professor of mine once said that all you remember from college is what you wrote papers on. It's true. I can talk about Advanced Directives and the damaging effects of Colonialism on health in Africa and father-son relationships in Hamlet, but derivatives or electrical circuits have left me (not that I was very good at them the first time through).
Could colleges approach learning in the same way as grad schools? Sure. Will they? Probably not.
I also wonder how many students would sign up for the work intensive classes that focused on marketing a project or starting a business. A fair portion of the college students I've seen in action are not overly ambitious.
I feel sorry for you. My college experience was awesome. I went to a Big 10 school. I studied everything from Russian to journalism to physics to film. I drank coffee and smoked cigarettes. I partied. I made friends who still amaze me at how smart they are 20 years (almost) later. I wrote a lot.
I agree with Scott that Universities are not trade schools. They are a place to develop your core. Where you figure out who your are. If my daughters don't go and have that experience I will be heart broken.
I'm kind of wondering if this is a Gen X vs. Millennials issue. I'm pretty sure Scott is an Xer. I'm an Xer. Now THAT would be something interesting to look into. Xers are loyal to their skills - not their jobs. Is it possible that they would be more likely to buy into the "learning for the sake of learning" philosophy? Could be.
I agree with Scott and Sean in the comments. College was not meant to be a trade school. Going to college is not really supposed to be about a job, etc. Although it has grown into that somewhat.
The idea of college is to provide topics of study that are interesting to learn and to discuss. That includes topics, theories, etc that you wouldn't learn about or even think about anywhere else.
I'm one of the guys, who out of high school didn't really want to go to college - I wanted to go out and start my own business and make money rather than go to school for four more years. However, here I am four years later graduating from college a completely different person. Well, not completely. I'm still the guy I use to be, but I've learned and added so much more. I personally agree greatly with higher education and feel that you will benefit by challenging your thoughts and your mind and thinking beyond your horizons.
Good points Richard, from what I know about more liberal artsy majors, you are hitting the nail on the head. I wonder how engineering and the sciences fit into that equation though... They say the same thing about engineering and how 90% of the facts you learn, you won't need or remember; however, for engineers, the biggest part of engineering school is learning how to think and analyze problems. I agree that even engineering education can use more practical experience - which I think that some schools do more of that than others.
I will have to ponder this some more, perhaps write a more extensive blog post/response to this - thanks Richard!
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11 RESPONSES TO "HOW TO FIX WHAT'S WRONG WITH COLLEGE"
Richard, I couldn't agree more with your entire post. The university I attend does a little bit of that for us entrepreneurship & biz dev majors, but that's more because they're still defining the curriculum.
If college were as you prescribed, it would be vastly more beneficial. The issue, I think, is that benefit would only hit a small number of people.
There will still be those wanting to go to college to have fun. Those going for "just a job". Those who aren't looking to push the limits or become the best.
Even then. I would say college isn't for those who want to become the best. I think it's an even greater waste of time for them. In a societal hoop that's been put in place, unfortunately. I'd bet those who question going to college vs. doing something else honestly great are the ones it benefits least. Because at least if you go not wanting to be the best, you have a high chance of learning skills you'll try to utilize for the next 10 years.
Richard, I definitely agree with your sentiments here.
Universities need to stop focusing on liberal arts and start thinking about practical ways to get their students onto a rewarding career track.
At the same time, students need to take some responsibility as well and maybe focus a little more on the stuff they learn in class.
Richard - The best class I ever took was a marketing class where the class was split into groups and we had to write an entire new marketing campaign for a small business.
Grades came down to a fifteen minute pitch at the end of the semester to the owner. One winning group was chosen and was given some cash and the promise of using part of the campaign.
It's a win-win for everyone... Students get real world experience and the small business gets a bunch of new marketing ideas...
If all classes were like that, college would have been much more educational...
WHOA!
College is not a factory for churning out business-people.
It's a place to learn about a wide range of topics and also gain some basic skills for the workplace. And maybe have some time to grow up a bit before being dumped into the real world. I know when I started college at 17, I didn't have a clue about life.
And note that I said BASIC skills. No university is going to completely prepare you for a job, because every company is different. The really specific training comes later, on the job. Sure, you could skip college and go directly to the job, but knowing the basics and theory helps a lot.
College isn't necessarily for everyone. If it's not for you, then do something else. But don't complain that it's not something it wasn't designed to be in the first place.
Ugh, when exactly did people start thinking of college as a glorified (and increasingly expensive) trade school rather than an institution of higher learning? While its true that many top jobs are difficult if not impossible to attain without a college degree, The Job isn't really the point.
In my opinion, college should be more about exposure to ideas and learning how to learn, regardless of career path. Critical and analytical thinking come in very handy no matter where your career takes you, and far too few people really know how to do it effectively.
I do see a place for Richard's brand of college, but I hope I never see the day when it becomes the only choice out there. For students who already has already chosen fixed career paths that they know they will stick to, or who are interested in investigating broader entrepreneurial arts, a system like he's describing might have appeal. But the risk is that these students may change their minds in their 30s or 40s and decide that they went in the wrong direction, and they won't have the fundamentals that allow them to recover.
This approach might work to some extent in business schools, but many people do go to school for reasons other than entrepreneurship.
I also have to disagree about changing grading. I think many younger folks have been brought up with too little in the way of consequences for making mistakes. Helicopter parents embark on far too many rescue missions which create an expectation of low consequences later in life.
The real life lesson you learn is that the bigger the mistake, the worse the consequences are, and there should be no expectation that someone will bail you out of a bad decision.
Yes, risk is important, but those risks need to balanced with consequences too, otherwise we become reckless and unconcerned about the outcomes of big mistakes.
I agree with the jist of what you're talking about. I was just at a career fair today and talking with other recruiters on how much in college you have no idea what's in store, nor do they usually know what they want to do. I think there should be somewhere to help people decide what kind of job they actually want, then pick the education to help them. I wish I had known more before choosing a major because now I don't use most of what I paid to learn.
You can find a lot of graduate programs that offer hands on application of the theory you're learning. Some of the tracks available for my M.A. in Communication Management were very heavy in project work; students graduated with a portfolio of consulting work. A friend doing her MBA is seems to always be buried under some team project. Another doing a degree in Spiritual Psychology has a series of applied theory projects (group and solo)and papers to complete before she can graduate.
The reason grad programs are so heavy in application of theory? You're committing to a specialty. You're training to be an expert in a subject area, so you need to know how to use that information in a real world environment.
College on the other hand, you go to college to learn how to think by taking a variety of classes that should also help you figure out what direction you want to go in professionally. You develop your ability to analyze a lot of information and draw conclusions that you can support. A professor of mine once said that all you remember from college is what you wrote papers on. It's true. I can talk about Advanced Directives and the damaging effects of Colonialism on health in Africa and father-son relationships in Hamlet, but derivatives or electrical circuits have left me (not that I was very good at them the first time through).
Could colleges approach learning in the same way as grad schools? Sure. Will they? Probably not.
I also wonder how many students would sign up for the work intensive classes that focused on marketing a project or starting a business. A fair portion of the college students I've seen in action are not overly ambitious.
I feel sorry for you. My college experience was awesome. I went to a Big 10 school. I studied everything from Russian to journalism to physics to film. I drank coffee and smoked cigarettes. I partied. I made friends who still amaze me at how smart they are 20 years (almost) later. I wrote a lot.
I agree with Scott that Universities are not trade schools. They are a place to develop your core. Where you figure out who your are. If my daughters don't go and have that experience I will be heart broken.
I'm kind of wondering if this is a Gen X vs. Millennials issue. I'm pretty sure Scott is an Xer. I'm an Xer. Now THAT would be something interesting to look into. Xers are loyal to their skills - not their jobs. Is it possible that they would be more likely to buy into the "learning for the sake of learning" philosophy? Could be.
I agree with Scott and Sean in the comments. College was not meant to be a trade school. Going to college is not really supposed to be about a job, etc. Although it has grown into that somewhat.
The idea of college is to provide topics of study that are interesting to learn and to discuss. That includes topics, theories, etc that you wouldn't learn about or even think about anywhere else.
I'm one of the guys, who out of high school didn't really want to go to college - I wanted to go out and start my own business and make money rather than go to school for four more years. However, here I am four years later graduating from college a completely different person. Well, not completely. I'm still the guy I use to be, but I've learned and added so much more. I personally agree greatly with higher education and feel that you will benefit by challenging your thoughts and your mind and thinking beyond your horizons.
Good points Richard, from what I know about more liberal artsy majors, you are hitting the nail on the head. I wonder how engineering and the sciences fit into that equation though... They say the same thing about engineering and how 90% of the facts you learn, you won't need or remember; however, for engineers, the biggest part of engineering school is learning how to think and analyze problems. I agree that even engineering education can use more practical experience - which I think that some schools do more of that than others.
I will have to ponder this some more, perhaps write a more extensive blog post/response to this - thanks Richard!
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